I currently went to an installer (~270$) and installed a preliminary system.
I supplied the installer with all cables (a mistake!), speakers, Alpine etc.

x9331->SGN13(stinger)->Alpine 9887(3 way)->pre->amp->tweeters.
->pre->amp->woofers

The tweeters are: scan speak r2904/70-0000
Woofers: scan speak 15s8530 (a leftover from home center project).

The 15s8530 didn't fit the door as the window won't close.
I had to install them with an adapter instead of the rear 6x9.
The tweeters went naturally to the mids-tweeters place.

1. Sound: Horrible to me. Nothing like scan-speak's home speakers.
2. Installation: I should have done it myself. The installer didn't check the system before he closed the plastics and now I have to replace one RCA which is fault. It means opening everything again!
3. The installer couldn't add one more pair of wires to the door, so active setup isn't available now (see below for future upgrades).

4. Future considerations:
a. Scan-speak 15w4531g00 in the front doors. Passive xover.
b. 6x9 - ????? Don't know what to place there.
The current 15S hits the plastics while playing and I have to cut in (LP) at 63hz!!!
c. I think I'll take the 9887 out and sell it (not needed). I thought it will have much better sound quality than the original (which is connected now the Alpine's Aux – sounds the same).

I will update with pictures.


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More pics to come.
I can say I'm entirely dissatisfied with the install. I'm not even sure it went out without any damage to the plastics.

 

sorry to hear about your bad experience. I too went with pro. installation, the labour charge alone was $700 and it took them 8 hours to do it. The result is simply amazing, it looks like it came out the factory , very clean & it sounds unbelivable. See my gallery for pics. Good luck with your project.

 

Thank you for the support, Reza!
I'm going to fix it all and re-design the system to give hi-end sound.

I read all the threads about here on the forum.
I came to the installation after I made the homework (x9331, speaker size, how to take every plastic off) and actually gave the installer easy life in this sense.
The things I wasn't prepared to were:
1. The 15S didn't fit the door only when you open the window!
2. Only one pair of wires into the door - no active setup!!

IMO, The only people that can help installing such system are on this forum, simply because the are the ones that know the Mini.
Any one familiar with high end speaker drivers like scan speak's?

What to do next (I would like your help):

1. I would also want perfect orgazination on the back (like Reza's).
2. Choosing new drivers for the car:
a. Scan speak.
b. Seas.
c. Morel elate component set - low price but not in the same level at all.
3. I would give up the active setup as there is no place to more than one amp.

 

bxr510 -

It sounds like your experiencing the same trials so many of us have in trying to install high quality sound in the MINI. Lord knows I've run into a number of my own setbacks in the process (and still going through it). However, what you envision can be done; you just have to work at it.

Your choice of speakers are good. If I were you, I would go with auto-specific lines, such as Seas Lotus or one of the Morel sets. These drivers are built with the car audio environment in mind (usually), and are generally more suitable for that reason.

Also, I wouldn't rule out a fully active system. With some careful planning, more than one amp can fit. Also, If you are really after good sound, I wouldn't be too concerned about the wiring limitations in the doors. In my experience, the door mounting location for the tweeter producings horrible imaging (others may disagree), even for drivers with solid off-axis performance. I came to the conclusion that the only acceptable location for a tweeter is the A-piller. A good installer can mold an average-size tweeter in the plastic cover (although you need to investigate the effect this placement might have on the airbag). Alternatively, you could sink a tweeter in each corner of the dash. With the right driver and EQ settings, the reflection off the windshield could produce nice sound. There may be discussions on previous threads--try more searches.

These are my thoughts. Good luck.

 

I would like to hear about your current car system.
Choosing the drivers, their placement and their active/passive xover is the main issue.

The interior design (in general) is more important to me than the sound.
That is why I try to use the original locations for the drivers.
It doesn't mean I won't try to reach an hi-end sound!

I agree about the A pillars as they were chosen by the mini sound designer in the hi-fi system but personally I don't like the look of drivers in the A pillar nor the upper dash (I like clean look).
Btw, The idea of placing tweeters in the dash corners was used by bang & olufsen in the Audi A8:
http://www.bang-olufsen.com/page.asp?id=321
It will require me to drill holes in the dash which I don't want to.

My current position is to choose the right drivers and where to place them.
The reason I chose scan speak is because I'm familiar with their sound and I like it.
I'm considering Morel Elate kit (2 or 3 way) but as I don't have experience with them - it's a "risk" of buying something that wouldn't get me the results.
Point taken on your recommendation for those.

6x9: What to place there? 6.5" alone or 5.25 with tweeter. The 5.25 can't give enough bass from there.


Another issue which isn't covered here on the threads, is the the wiring. I haven't seen any wiring instructions nor pictures. This also includes the wiring of the amp(s) & sub in the baggage. The final design looks awesome (like Reza's, I want it to look like that). But how do I get there? The installer just through the cables in the back, and I'm still worried of the plastics there surviving his installation.

Active setup:
The current system (a pair of woofers in the back, a pair of tweets in the front) runs active with one amp. The tweets run on -7db lower than the woofers. The Alpine's xover points are not enough for the right sound precision, it might need a much detailed processor (h701 or dcx2496).
The installation included two McIntosh amplifiers which could hardly be fitted.
I took out one of them.

There are more issues such as whether the original Alpine is sufficient for that sound quality? Currently I drive it through the 9887 aux and I don't hear any difference between it and the 9887. It might change with the right drivers placement.
I also noticed that my N95 playing into its Aux gives much better sound than the CD playing.

I will update with more pictures, especially from the back installation.

 

Before I get into my response, I should tell you that I own and R53, not an R56. When I read your post originally, I thought I was in the First Gen forum (must have been tired). Thus, I cannot advise you as well on the technical aspects of the installation as those who drive your car. However, I think my recommendations still apply.

Having said that, you are clearly looking for a stealth install, and there is no reason why you can't get great (even audiophile quality) sound using factory locations. I have two recommendations. First, take a look at some of the posts out there on driver selection. A lot of folks with R56s seem to be impressed with Focals (although I never liked them). They make two- and three-way setups that appear to fit with little or no mods. Second, try to find a shop (perhaps you already know of one) that has high-end speakers on display. Although it's difficult to gauge outside of the car, test a variety of tweets for good off-axis characteristics. This will help with inherent imaging problems.

I am a fan of Scan-Speak. In fact, I am thinking about installing a set of their Revelator midbasses down the road. If you are satisfied with their sound, they may be an excellent choice (if they fit). My personal preference is for Morel, and their Elate series are nice. You may find that the two-way setup sounds cleaner that the 3-way, expecially given the location of the midrange in the door.

As far as the rears, my preference is not to use tweeters. I like my high-end material always in front of me, and I find that tweeters in the rear are distracting. I use the rear locations strictly for midbass reinforcement. You would be surprised how much kick you can get back there if you dampen the rear chamber (I used dynamat and foam to create a quasi-seeled enclosure).

In terms of wiring, I am not sure I understand your concern. Please elaborate.

As far as processors, I think Audiocontrol makes some great products for the money. They can be a big help in tuning a hostile environment.

I am not sure about the HU. I was under the impression that if you removed the stock unit from the R56, the car blew up or some such nonsense. Apparently, that is not the case. I am also not knowledgeable about the N95. What is that?

Good hunting

 

The sticky on replacing the speakers (while very long now) has tons of useful information in it.

 

I'm sure your (and others) experience from the R53 can help much.
I went through 1st gen threads as well.

1. Focals: I bought a used Utopia 3 way, but it turnes out they were all rusty inside. I found it out only on the install.
I wasn't planning to use its tweeters at all as I don't like metal tweeters.
Even the scan speak ring (r2904/70-0000) have a little too metal-like sound for me. At home I use the 9900 with great success.
Anyway I was never sure about focals. The only focal I listened to were the k2p. Didn't sound well, but it might be the installation as the home Utopia are considered amazing speakers.

2.Tweeters are my last concern as the upper slot seems like a perfect spot for home/car tweeters - such as the scan speak rings I placed there.

3. Revelators midbasses - I'm considering the 15w4531 for the front.
They will fit exactly in the front doors (the 15s shield is the problem).
Not sure if they will sound better than a morel elate 6" there.

4. 3 way - The upper slot can accomodate a mid woofer and the lower the bass. It is common today to think that 3-way would give much better sound because the bass driver doesn't have to handle the mid energy and vice versa. I have 2.5 ways at home (8545 & 8546) and they sound amazing!
It's interesting what you're saying about the morel 3-way. Maybe it's because the mid is a dome type (vs cone).
Anyway in 3 way design I just don't have a (stealth) place for the tweeters!

5. Point taken about the rears. I wonder, 6.5"? scan speak 7" can be fitted there? or should I just use a 6x9 just for bass (crossed at ~125hz), maybe the original?

6. Wiring: How to move wires from the front to the rear - pictures?
I already seen it in the installation (remove any bit of plastics).

My concern is for the trunk looks. The installer removed the two foams underneath the trunk's floor to make room for the wires to get out to the trunk. He also pushed and pulled them. I like everything to be neat as new.
I didn't clean it yet so I don't know.
I want my next installation to have stealth box.
I would like to know exactly where to route all wires in the car (from front to trunk).

7. HU: I didn't remove the original one and I don't want to. I like it's design and functionality.
I installed the Alpine in the boot for two reasons:
a. To check the sound quality of the original vs the 9887.
b. To use the 9887 processing capabilities. These are nice and very easy to configure but doesn't have enough crosspoints (such as 2.1khz for example, only 2khz or 2.5khz).

8. N95 - Nokia N95, my cell phone. Its sound quality is very good.
When I connect its line-out to the original aux-in, the music sounds better (I'm not kidding). It might mean that the original HU does have smaller dynamic range.
I'm sure the same thing will happen using an iphone/ipod.

 

Read it. Print it. The installer used it.
It was very helpful.

But you didn't put pics/instructions for wire routing.

 

glad you used it!

nope, no pics on how to route the wires but then that'll depend on the specific install/equipment used. The wiring schematics on the other hand are invaluable.

 

Ok, guys, last options to choose from:

1. Front Top: Scan speak ring radiators (already installed). crossed 2.5khz.

2. Front bottom: Audio Technology cQuenze 5" 15H automotive version (4 ohm). Crossed at 80-100hz & 2.5Khz.
OR
Dynaudio mw162 crossed at 80hz & 2.5 khz.

3. Rear: Audio tehcnology cQuenze 18H (6-7") with an adapter.
Probably will be crossed at 40hz & 3.2khz.
OR
Dynaudio mw162
OR
Seas w18nx-001 7"

What would you choose?

 

do you realize most of the people on this board have never heard of those brands much less used them?

sounddomain.com forums would be a good place to ask about the really high end car audio stuff. then come back and tell us. =)

 

The AT cQ 15H and the Dyn mw162 are very similar sounding and in such a small vehicle may be so close you would not hear the difference. Only thing is that the AT cQ 15H will handle a little more power before cone distortion.

The AT cQ 18H definately have an advantage over the Seas IMHO but then again this is a very subjective thing as your ears and mine are different.

As for the mw162's in the rear why not go up to the Dyn mw172 (8") to do the low end a little better crossed over at 30-40 and then put in the scan speak ring radiators as will and cross them at 2.5khz then with a sub in the rear to go down to 20hz and below you should have a kicking system

 

*stick foot in mouth*

 

You did say most people and I am only one so your statement was actually very correct.

MOST people that visit this forum probably have only heard of these brands here.

I only know of these because i work in the High End Home audio business

 

At the level you are spending, equipment choices mean much less than install and tuning. My first priority would be to find a shop you can trust, then get a processor to handle your EQ and time alignment. BTW I assume you had everything deadened?

My system:
HiVi D6.8 (very similar to dyn mw162)
Seas Neo crossed at 2.5k (passive)

Also, I would not give up on active, it gives you so much more flexibility for tuning. Get smaller amps or run the rear channel directly off the headunit before you do that.

 

I did some simulations with winisd and unibox. That is what so confusing!
The mid of the AT looks better but as you said, it might not be noticed at all.
The price difference do though!

In what way?
Looking at the cone xcursion the seas can play down to ~30-40hz while the cQ can play down to ~60hz.

The mw172 will not fit the natural 6x9 holes in the rear.
The cQ18H, seas w18 and mw162 do with the right adapter.
The rings are already installed and do sound well.

Well, but it can help people that haven't heard about it and want hi-end system in their mini.

It will run active using the 9887 internal xover & time alignment.
I do have amps for this purpose that I will fit in the trunk.
Actually, because I don't want to make special builds in the car, it's hard to fit the right drivers to the natural box sizes (~30 liters) of the front/rear.
The scan speak 15w8530, for example, do sound bad (comparing to their potential) in the rear.

Actually, There is a big difference in the price of the mw162 & seas to the AT cQ.
This is why I try to consult (alot) before I buy these or those.

 

what amp is that? That's a horrid install. There's room under the front seats....roughly 16x11x2.5". Here's how the amp looked on my R53 (similar space under the seat):





The bigger issue of pulling 16-4 into the doors....it's not going to be easy. You'll have to drill out the block and add in the wire - it's not a simple as many cars where you can pull through with other wiring.

 

Yeah I know! That's what the installer did!
The AMP is a McIntosh 4x100W.
I'm planing to change the installation and make a special box in the trunk like the ones you see on this site. I do have a 15" sub I can install but it needs a ~64 liter box! It means a "flat" box in the trunk but no room for the amps. Or am I wrong?
There will be two-three amps installed.

The amps I have on the bench:

1. McIntosh's: 2x150W, 4x100W (the only one which is very big), 4x50W.
2. Linear Power: 2x200W, 2x50W.
3. Audioson: 2x25W (very small, can be used for the tweets and placed anywhere!).
The remaining will be sold to cover some of the costs.
I guess I still need help deciding which, how to and where to install all (after I'll choose the right componets).

Your installation under the seat looks good but how do you move the cables to the CD and speakers?

I opened up the connector.
It looks possible to run two wires between the connector and the rubber that covers it against water, and move them through the original rubber cover to the door.
Drilling the connector seems a wrong way as this connector is different from the one on the first mini.

Another question: The width of the rear 6x9 seems to be 151mm but the cQ 7" mounting dimension is 153mm. Do you think those 2mm (1mm each side) will deny the installation of the 7"? the space between the 9" and the 7" will be covered with a thin MDF adapter.

Dead ending:
On the back of it there will be dynamat xtreme and dynamat absorb.

Another option that can be used (around the same price as cQ 15H & 18H & ring rads):
Alpine SPX-Z18T - 7" on the rear, 4" mid & tweeter in the front.

 

I ran a pull of 16-4 to the harness in the dash to connect the front stage (cutting the Metra harness forward of the Molex, then tapping in at the speaker end in the door to wire up the xovers) and ran 16-2 to each rear location directly (Kicker F69a 6x9 free-air subs). I had plans to run a dedicated amp for a sub enclosure (which I built but just ran off the existing amp to test), but, the car was parted out and sold a few weeks ago.

cool. to be honest, the R56 we did had a 2 way Polk SR6500 set on a two channel amp so we didn't look closely at the wiring situation. I wanted to bi-amp my car but decided the K.I.S.S. method would be better.

As for sound deadening.....ED has their stuff on 50% off clearance right now.

 

Except that on the R55/R56 most of this room is taken up by other stuff now like DSC on the passanger side leaving only enought room for an amp to small to do anything, or no room if you have sat radio installed. Driver side is also full on my car.

 

The OP has an MC In a car as small as the MINI, every bit of space counts. There's a fair bit of room to hide stuff in the rear sidepanels as well.

 

I do have space under the passenger side as I don't have DSC - ASC+T instead.

Another option for the rear 6x9:
Tang Band 6x9 subwoofer.

http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w69-1042j.htm

Actually it's much cheaper than the cQ 18H and gets very low.
What do you think?

I'm kind of worried that the cQ 18H won't fit (153mm mounting width, and 180mm width) and their sound is blocked by the rear plastics. Any comments on that?

I kind of tend towards the cQ 15H (front) & cQ 18H (rear) but still checking other options.

 

the Tangband is supposed to be good - PM ryephile - I believe he used them.

I was just selling my Kicker 6x9's too a week ago....the last of the try 6x9 subwoofers. On that RF amp, bridged 2ohms mono, everybody thought I had a pair of tens in the back. Nobody was interested so they went on eBay for $75.