Is it worth the extra money, I hear it has no bass!?

 

>>Is it worth the extra money, I hear it has no bass!?


WRONG!! It has a lot of bass. However, the complaint I have (and most people have) is that the rear speakers put out mostly bass only. Anyone who sits back there doesn't get to hear much high frequency with their music. But, for the driver and front passenger, the music is very good and has a lot of bass. You could get a good aftermarket stereo that allows full range music for everyone in the car and probably with even more bass if you added a sub. But, for an OEM offering, I think the H-K is very good.

 

WRONG! The HKs provide more than plenty bass, I have the HK in my MINI and added tons of power with double decker ZAPCO amps and a JL audio stealthbox subwoofer just to get the most from the HKs. My system sounds better than I expected after all the goodies were set up. I even got the installer to add a dial **** to control the sub's volume and he placed it at the empty toggle space.

See the audio thread: "AMPLIFIERS...which are the best?" for my set up details and others feedback on amp systems.

Here's the pics:

 

>>Is it worth the extra money, I hear it has no bass!?

It actually has a lot of bass, too much for some.

I have the HK stereo and love it, in my view it is well worth the money.

I should point out a few things:
It is possible to get a better stereo, but IMHO not for the same amount of money, in fact you would have to spend a lot of money to get better sound than the HK.
In my view, the HK is considerably better than the stock unit. Some have said that the stock unit delivers better performance than the HK if you replace the speaker with better ones, but I do not believe that is true. The standard stereo can be improved with better speakers, but not to the level of the HK.

The HK sound is absolutely fabulous, but:
the HK system is designed for optimum performance with a front-biased sound stage. If you like a rear-biased sound stage, the HK becomes extremely bass heavy, and many may not like that.

Unfortunately the MINI is very prone to rattles, squeaks, squeals and vibrations. If you run the HK near full blast, the right door panel has a tendency to vibrates and buzz in a very annoying manner. This would probably be an issue no matter what stereo you would get, and can be dealt with, but you have to put in the effort to remove the panel, and add tape and sound deadening. This is the one thing that bugs me about the HK: it is sad to add a great stereo but then have to deal with truly annoying buzzes and rattles! I'm still working on getting rid of all mine.

Here is a great review and tutorial of the HK stereo:

HK stereo review and tutorial

Enjoy!
Markus

 

Some audiophiles have reported the HK has virtually NO sub-bass and has too much bass to compensate for the lack of sub-bass. A good sub-woofer is the cure.




btw, is sub-base a word? I think I just made it up.

 

Definitely worth it. I don't know why folks say it has no bass... I suppose these folks probably have hearing damage already. Here is a link to another thread on this HK/bass topic:

Should I use subs with HK?

 

For $550 the HK is an excellent audio option. I didn't have the option for HK at the time I bought my MCS and I would have got it if I could. I added stereo upgrades and even after $1000 to $1500 I'm still getting back to the level of the HK sound. There are some advantages to the aftermarket system like picking your own speakers and headunit but sound wise the HK is hard to beat if you budget is under $1000. At $2500 I can out perform HK only because of having a separate sub and maybe more than one amp but you loose space in your boot and you have to deal with potentially lots of interference noise.

So if you have the option for HK and your budget for audio upgrades is less than about $1000 then order HK. Pooky13 kept her speakers and upgraded the amps and headunit and added the JL stealthbox so in theory you can use the HK and upgrade it later so it is not totally lost. On the other hand if you are after a custom audio solution then just order the stock radio and change it out later.

I agree that when I changed out my speakers only (MB Quarts front and rear) there was only moderate improvement. I felt the speakers could not get enough power from the stock radio to do much better than the stock speakers could. Perhaps more efficient speakers would be a better choice. Adding a separate four channel amp helped alot. Then I could hear the limits of the stock CD player. I changed that out for an aftermarket head unit and it was better. When playing music with a lot of bass the front speakers were getting totally overworked to the point of distortion- solution? Add a sub to handle the lows and use a crossover to get the midrange and highs to the front component speakers-much cleaner and much better lows. But your budget must be high up to $2000 or more. Unless you do the work yourself and you know shops that can give you a break on the installation/package deal etc.

 

Pooky13-
Do I see a ROAD RAGE 1.0 or 10! Farad CAP! I hope it is a 1.0
Those are expensive. 10 would be huge. Overkill.
I saw being installed in a H2 at the shop my MINI was being worked on
a new audio/video system with dual 12" subs and lots of speakers and extra amps and they had to use dual
PC1200 Optima batteries ($250 each where I live) and a 15 FARAD CAP!
A giant expense- I hope they like it while cruising around at 10 mpg.

 

>>Is it worth the extra money, I hear it has no bass!?


Definately not worth the money. For the money it costs you could buy a proper system. Just like the basic CD player they sell, if you buy an aftermarket setup it will absolutely outclass the BMW attempt. All you need is the standard setup, get an aftermarket cd player with an equaliser (so that you can take the bass away from the speakers) and then get an amp and a subwoofer. This will sound so much better than the HK system and will cost less. Speakers are not designed to give out alot of bass. This is why many people say the HK system has poor quality at high volumes, the speakers are being worked too hard. Anyone that has purchased the HK system will disagree with me but I suggest you don't. If you take this route your setup will not only look better (a nice colourful headunit in the dash always looks good) but will sound soooooo much better.

And to answer your question "I hear it has no bass!?" this is true. There is more bass in the HK than standard, that goes without saying really, but it cannot handle the bass how I like my systems to due to the fact that the bass is coming from the speakers.

In conclusion - DON'T GET THE HK. Its another over priced BMW extra that is worth staying well clear of.

 

>> I even got the installer to add a dial **** to control the sub's volume and he placed it at the empty toggle space.
>>
>>

 

Since I am not a tood of a demanding 'Audiophile', I found the HK system to be of more than satisfying quality soundwise. I am not into installing aftermarket stereo components, so for $550 extra, the HK appeared to be a good compromise to that end...a factory installed system with full factory warranty.

We currently have the standard CD stereo system in our '02 Cooper CVT and while it is nice, I feel that the system lacks low end punch. I know of some owners that have been very successful at improving the sound quality of their standard stereos by replacing the stock speakers and adding AMPs, etc, but then again I am one of those people that like to keep their cars stock (Nothing wrong if you like to mod your car).

The HK is a front biased sound stage system and the quality of the bass, highs and overall stereo imaging is excellent. However, if you are into breaking windows with your car's stereo or blasting music to other cars around you in traffic, then agin, this system might not be for you.

I have a great deal of respect for Harmon Kardon products and also for their relationship with BMW throught the years. For me personally, is more important to have a nice sounding stereo than having a sunroof or custom alloy wheels, so yes it is worth it in my book.

 

>>The HK is a front biased sound stage system and the quality of the bass, highs and overall stereo imaging is excellent. However, if you are into breaking windows with your car's stereo or blasting music to other cars around you in traffic, then agin, this system might not be for you.
>>


So does that mean all people who have the aftermarket knowhow to buy a better quality sound system whilst saving money like breaking windows or blasting music into other cars around you ? Interesting point of view you have there, associating people with audio knowledge with rude boys ? I personally see the aftermarket route as much better value for money, and to be honest I don't even think that is questionable. I understand that people like yourself like to keep things standard, like you said you don't like mods. Never-the-less this doesn't make it the right route to take. If you buy the HK system you will no doubt get a better lifetime garentee and not have the hassle of installing it yourself or have to pay for someone to install it, you will however have a lesser system. The HK setup isn't designed with sound quality the main concern, its designed to make money for BMW.

 

>>
>>
>>>>The HK is a front biased sound stage system and the quality of the bass, highs and overall stereo imaging is excellent. However, if you are into breaking windows with your car's stereo or blasting music to other cars around you in traffic, then agin, this system might not be for you.
>>>>
>>
>>
>>So does that mean all people who have the aftermarket knowhow to buy a better quality sound system whilst saving money like breaking windows or blasting music into other cars around you ? Interesting point of view you have there, associating people with audio knowledge with rude boys ? I personally see the aftermarket route as much better value for money, and to be honest I don't even think that is questionable. I understand that people like yourself like to keep things standard, like you said you don't like mods. Never-the-less this doesn't make it the right route to take. If you buy the HK system you will no doubt get a better lifetime garentee and not have the hassle of installing it yourself or have to pay for someone to install it, you will however have a lesser system. The HK setup isn't designed with sound quality the main concern, its designed to make money for BMW.



I think you have misunderstood my post. I am not making associations between those who prefer to follow the aftermarket route and "rude boys" who like to blast their music on traffic. I don't know how you made that connection because that was not the intent of what I wrote earlier on.

I think I was trying to name a couple of "Expectations" people might have when considering the HK system and how it suits their sound quality tastes. I think also that somewhere in my post I said that if you like to mod your car there is nothing wrong with that its just a personal preference, that's all.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

>>Definately not worth the money. For the money it costs you could buy a proper system. Just like the basic CD player they sell, if you buy an aftermarket setup it will absolutely outclass the BMW attempt. All you need is the standard setup, get an aftermarket cd player with an equaliser (so that you can take the bass away from the speakers) and then get an amp and a subwoofer.


Can you itemize here the costs of each of these units?
* new headunit:
* amp:
* Subwoofer and enclosure:
* Professional Installtion:

Thanks.

 

>>
>>>>Definately not worth the money. For the money it costs you could buy a proper system. Just like the basic CD player they sell, if you buy an aftermarket setup it will absolutely outclass the BMW attempt. All you need is the standard setup, get an aftermarket cd player with an equaliser (so that you can take the bass away from the speakers) and then get an amp and a subwoofer.
>>
>>
>>Can you itemize here the costs of each of these units?
>>* new headunit:
>>* amp:
>>* Subwoofer and enclosure:
>>* Professional Installtion:
>>
>>Thanks.

Yea sure. As has been discussed above its all about personal preference and if you are into mods. This is just my strong opinion

I can't do prices for the U.S im afraid as I live in the UK but ill give you our prices and convert them using an online convertor ....

What I would have

Head Unit - Either - Sony CDX-M800 £175.00 = $285.00

Or - Panasonic CQDFX983N £ 185.00 = $300.00

Sub and Amp package - Either - Caliber CA2260/CWP10+box7 £115.00 = $185.00

Or - Sony XM255/XSL1236/Box12/pc420 £120 = $195.00

Installation fees would depend on where you go BUT I would suggest they are not needed. I am not an audio god and I installed mine no problem. Is very easy, the main problem is people do not have confidence in themselves to do it. If you do get it fitted I would expect to pay about £40ish. Not alot. Now bere in mind the stereos above are by fair not cheap. They are just good value. You can always save another $100 - $125 by just getting a cheaper stereo. The above setup linked in with a standard MINI Cooper stereo would sound really good, not rude boy or anything - classy

 

>>
>>>>Definately not worth the money. For the money it costs you could buy a proper system. Just like the basic CD player they sell, if you buy an aftermarket setup it will absolutely outclass the BMW attempt. All you need is the standard setup, get an aftermarket cd player with an equaliser (so that you can take the bass away from the speakers) and then get an amp and a subwoofer.
>>
>>
>>Can you itemize here the costs of each of these units?
>>* new headunit:
>>* amp:
>>* Subwoofer and enclosure:
>>* Professional Installtion:
>>
>>Thanks.

Yea sure. As has been discussed above its all about personal preference and if you are into mods. This is just my strong opinion

I can't do prices for the U.S im afraid as I live in the UK but ill give you our prices and convert them using an online convertor ....

What I would have

Head Unit - Either - Sony CDX-M800 £175.00 = $285.00

Or - Panasonic CQDFX983N £ 185.00 = $300.00

Sub and Amp package - Either - Caliber CA2260/CWP10+box7 £115.00 = $185.00

Or - Sony XM255/XSL1236/Box12/pc420 £120 = $195.00

Installation fees would depend on where you go BUT I would suggest they are not needed. I am not an audio god and I installed mine no problem. Is very easy, the main problem is people do not have confidence in themselves to do it. If you do get it fitted I would expect to pay about £40ish. Not alot. Now bere in mind the stereos above are by fair not cheap. They are just good value. You can always save another $100 - $125 by just getting a cheaper stereo. The above setup linked in with a standard MINI Cooper stereo would sound really good, not rude boy or anything - classy

 

Thanks badboyzbadboyz!

It's probably been over 12 years since I set foot in a car audio shop. Looks like one can get a lot of stuff for so little money now...

 

my two cents:
i have the h/k, and would not have ordered it had i heard one first. most of the presets are just unusable (but might be fun if you're into hallucinogens..). a simple 5 band equalizer and some rear tweeters would be a drastic improvement. the system has good power, it's just not being put to good use.
if only we could hack the dsp...

 

I am not an expert = or even an intermediate apparently...

what does 'front-biased' mean?

I have the h/k and I feel like I can't get the bass low enough - it always seems like the speakers are about to waffle. I was always told that if you like bass (which I do!) that I should make the back speakers the louder ones - that they are better for delivering those sounds. Is that right?

 

>>I am not an expert = or even an intermediate apparently...
>>
>>what does 'front-biased' mean?
>>
>>I have the h/k and I feel like I can't get the bass low enough - it always seems like the speakers are about to waffle. I was always told that if you like bass (which I do!) that I should make the back speakers the louder ones - that they are better for delivering those sounds. Is that right?
>>

Front biased means a) it is better suited for a fade setting close to center rather than more towards rear speakers, and/or b) even with a fade setting to the rear it will not seem as much as if the sound were coming from the rear.

Many people in a car prefer a rear sound stage, or more of the sound coming from the rear, since this makes the car seem a little more spacious. However, the listening experience then is much more removed from that of a home stereo system, which is typically heavily front biased.

On the HK, in some EQ settings, the rear speakers are used as (sub) woofers, in others as broad band and woofers (driven separately by the two coils in each cone). If you use electronic of mini h/k setting, the rear are used as (sub) woofers. Therefore, if you set the F/R fade more towards the rear, you will NOT move the sound stage to the back, but you will boost bass. So, in electronic and mini h/k, you can boost bass by setting fade to R, and you can reduce bass by setting fade more to F.

Hope this helps.
M.

 

With my MINI *still* at Tweeter (since June) I will not make many comments on this thread ... read the AMPLIFIERS thread for more.

I hope that Tweeter will restore my car to the HK sound quality it had before they started, and refund the $1700 which did *not* buy an improvement.

I have been one of the more vocal people against HK previously ... I definitely would like a less frontal sound stage. But the nightmare I have been through this past month tells me that the HK is a very good option ...

To badboyz ... interesting how cheap your alternate is! Have you got this system installed? And have you heard an HK?

 

In the US if you go to any pro audio shop you are likely to be looking at much more cost that has been estimated.
A simple set up at Circuit city might cost $1000 or less installed but the products they use are suspect and might fail.
You get what you pay for.

My audio upgrade and costs installed were roughly:

Nakamichi CD-400 head unit $500 installed
Xtant 4.4i 4 channel amp $700 installed
JL stealthbox subwoofer $600 installed
MB Quart speakers front and rear $600 installed

Professional installation is a must in a MINI due to the electrical system design. There is great potential for harming your wiring harness if you do things wrong and you may have interference noise which is a high pitched whining sound.

Yes the custom audio system is better than HK but costs 4 times more. Stick to HK if the standard audio is not to your liking. If you don't like HK - and be sure to listen to it, then be prepared to spend anywhere from $1000 to $2500 depending on what quality components you use. I have a 3 to 4 year warranty on all parts and labor for some things like the amp and a one year on most of the rest. Go over to the audio topic section to read more.