Better listen to Ray's words of wisdom.. This is a litigious society our slimy legal brethren have created and we have to play by their rules now.
Since Ray seems to be on top of this item, maybe he could give us all an idea of what kind of policy (we) would need and who (we ) could get to underwrite it and for how much.. Better take heed people.

 

Fine then, lets just cancel the official dragon run. If anyone just wants to, you know, hang out and drive around thats fine but nothing official. I hate the indolent litigatory society we live in. Bunch of freakin crybabies can't take responsibility for their own actions so they wanna take you to court for their own mistakes. If there is anyone like this coming to the Deal's Gap area to drive in this non-event, stay home. If you can't take responsibility for yourself and for you mistakes and shortcomings, stay home. This place is for people who enjoy a spirited drive and understand part of the drive is RISK. Risk that you could die, tear up your car, have another driver on the road tear up your car, get seriously injured while you or another driver totals your car, ect. BUT, there is no more risk driving on hwy 129 on this weekend than on any other weekend. I forgot THP and BCSD. Tenn Highway Patrol and Blount Co Sheriff's Dept. They will ticket if they see traffic violations. So now its not an official event just a group of peeps drivin for fun. Happy?

 

Hey guy, we're on your side and it wouldn't have to be anybody in the Dragon run. This is a public highway and we live in a society looking for someone else to blame for everything that happens to them.
I for one, do not want to see Sherry, or anybody else, who is putting so much effort into this event to be left out on a limb.. We need to put our collective heads together and solve this obvious snag. This too shall pass grasshopper.

 

>>Making OFFICIAL notices makes it a liabiltiy to the organizers it is now not UnOfficial
>>
>>the fact that no money will be exchanged does not release the fact that this is a Publicized Motoring EVENT, which causes legal concerns, especially for ANYONE who has already publicly assumed a role as an organizer/host or sponsor

Thank you for pointing that out, Dragon Run is now officially cancelled. Please do not expect any more posts from me about it.

_________________

 

To me, this is a bit overboard. We're not talking about an organized, sanctioned, club sponsored event here. We're just a bunch of people going to the same place on the same weekend. It'd be no different if you met a group of your friends at McDonald's on a Saturday night. If you leave by yourself and get in a wreck, does whoever said let's meet at McDonald's on Saturday share responsibility? I don't think so. On an even bigger scale, it's no different than bike week in Daytona.

The LV event was sponsored, at least in part, by a club.

 

well i know i'll be in a cabin with a bunch of friends to "vacation" in the area. so if a bunch of other people that we know happen to show up from me tell them my plans than that will be great.. wink.. wink...

i have car ins. to drive my car. but i have to eat so i'll have dinner, and maybe some friends will join me. that would be nice. this is so not offical.

 

Thanks April for the reminder! I'm booked and will be there with my significant other at least for a couple of nights starting with the party on the 29th. :smile:

 

You guys are acting like scolded children. Ignoring the fact that it's now "official" whether you like it or not, it's gone this far. Hopefully no one gets hurt. Hopefully no damge is done. Hopefully the organizer of this event come away without incident.

But, you really should insure this event... it can't cost more than $500. Listen to Dominic from AZ, Listen to DiD...they have more experience in these matters.

The fact that this event is posted on nearly every MINI site only solidifies that it is a REAL event. and legally, this cannot be compared to an evening at Mickey D's with a few pals. Remember, there is always someone to blame... and since VAMini was tagged with CoHost... that means there's at least 2. Lawsuits can ruin lives, unless you are the one filing suit.

Bike Week is INSURED. Multiple Businesses and clubs roll out to BIKE WEEK, they are all insured. Local Businesses are insured for Bike Week.

Are the seperate Mini Clubs that are heading out to the Dragon, caravans etc, insured? We should start there. They are obviously organizations. Sunshine Mini's have a caravan planned.... are they insured? all the multiple clubs attending should have insurance, and make sure they are covered out of their local insured areas. It's Irresponsible to roll out to an uninsured event.




Now back to your regularly scheduled program :smile:

 

The Dragon run is going to be great! I'd love to go, but my 10 year anniverary is April 30th. One of my fellow AMO club members has already booked his lodge room for the April event. I've heard great things about last year's event. Wow!

It's amazing the thoughts that go into the idea of whether or not to have insurance. It's as strong as Coke vs Pepsi, Ford vs Chevy, Republican vs Democrat.

I could care less if you chose or not chose to purchase some to cover yourselves from outsiders. Remember, it's not so much to protect us from each other, but from outsiders naming all involved/participants in the law suit. It's like having a lawyer on retainer for $1.0 Million dollars. It doesn't matter if the plaintiff is right or not. The problem is that there's a possibility that all involved would be names in the suit. Meaning that all involved would need to go to the expense of hiring a lawyer to win their case. But with that insurance umbrella there...

There's an Insurance Thread on NAM that I started that has insurance information in it as well as links to various insurance companies. And a link to a site with a list of club insurance companies more complete than those I listed in the thread.

Don't take my word for the end-all be-all. By all means, feel free to contact your attorney for specifics on liabities and the best way to cover yourself.

Please don't shoot the messenger. I offer this information with an intent to provide additional information. I'm not here to stop your event or to persude anyone from participating. It's a great event and serves a large need in the MINI society.

 

>>You guys are acting like scolded children. Ignoring the fact that it's now "official" whether you like it or not, it's gone this far. Hopefully no one gets hurt. Hopefully no damge is done. Hopefully the organizer of this event come away without incident.
>>
>>But, you really should insure this event... it can't cost more than $500. Listen to Dominic from AZ, Listen to DiD...they have more experience in these matters.
>>
>>The fact that this event is posted on nearly every MINI site only solidifies that it is a REAL event. and legally, this cannot be compared to an evening at Mickey D's with a few pals. Remember, there is always someone to blame... and since VAMini was tagged with CoHost... that means there's at least 2. Lawsuits can ruin lives, unless you are the one filing suit.
>>
>>Bike Week is INSURED. Multiple Businesses and clubs roll out to BIKE WEEK, they are all insured. Local Businesses are insured for Bike Week.
>>
>>Are the seperate Mini Clubs that are heading out to the Dragon, caravans etc, insured? We should start there. They are obviously organizations. Sunshine Mini's have a caravan planned.... are they insured? all the multiple clubs attending should have insurance, and make sure they are covered out of their local insured areas. It's Irresponsible to roll out to an uninsured event.
>>
>>

Ray Ray Ray Ray RAY let it go, life is too short for a young man like you to worry SO much. I appreciate your dogged persistance on this issue, to protect the innocent from unknown litigation. I spoke with an attorney today and explained the situation and he said in fact that there is some concern of suit. He said that the CLUB or ORGANIZATION could be sued in the event of a situation where damage to body or property occurs at a gathering in the name of that club or organization. He went on to say there is NO culpability for an informal organizer of an informal event or gathering where there is no OFFICIAL club presiding and the risk to participants, spectators, or passers by is not beyond reasonable limits as defined by a reasonable adult. That means someone could suggest meeting at a place eating dinner and driving around together and if a passer by (third party) were to be injured in the process their only legal recourse is against the individual who caused the injury. They have NO legal avenue against the organizer. Kinda like meeting at the Fontana/Tapoco area to do a couple of dinners and a drive. Anyone organizing a meeting of people has no liabillity for the actions of individuals as long as the individuals are not identified as an official club. Even if it is a club the organizer has no liabillity, the club is held in liabillity, as long as the organizer has not neglegently organized the event in such a way that it increases risk to all parties beyond a reasonable amount based on circumstances. That changes however if a person organizes, say, an illegal street race. The organizer can be held responsible for any damages to person or property due to the nature of excessive risk to participants, property, and passers by. As any reasonable person can see this event is clearly an informal meeting for dinner and driving, not street racing or other dangerous activities. You will forgive me, I hope, if I take the word of a lawyer who deals with this crap everyday over yours. :smile:

 

Thank you Rafthos, that was very good information. The Dragon Run is officially cancelled, but the fuzzy one and I will be in the area for a birdwatching vacation. If we happen to see any other MINIs there, we promise to wave.

Oh yes, and some friends are meeting for coffee and some other friends have invited us for dinner.

 

>>You guys are acting like scolded children. Ignoring the fact that it's now "official" whether you like it or not, it's gone this far. Hopefully no one gets hurt. Hopefully no damge is done. Hopefully the organizer of this event come away without incident.
>>
It's Irresponsible to roll out to an uninsured event.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Now back to your regularly scheduled program :smile:


Hopefully you will stay home. Way to ruin a good time. :evil:

 

Yep, thanks for ruining this for everyone! :evil:

 

I didn't try to ruin anything for anyone, I'm sorry you see it that way. I just pointed something out that came up in the planning of another big mini meet. I'm not trying to 'sue' anyone like the organizer of this event said over on MINI2 :smile:

 

My belief is that everyone attending an event such as the non-event at the Tail of the Dragon is responsible for their own behavior.

So sue me!

 

 

Aliens have written on my calendar that I'll be transported to a mysteriously curvy and mountainous land on the 1st weekend in May. Something about the numbers 318 and 11? I think I’ll have my camping gear and sex toys ready just in case.

 

>>You guys are acting like scolded children. Ignoring the fact that it's now "official" whether you like it or not, it's gone this far. Hopefully no one gets hurt. Hopefully no damge is done. Hopefully the organizer of this event come away without incident.
>>


This is not a personal attack – only an observation of what was said.

First, these are not your words, though you may have typed them. You have not the intelligence to put three words together in one sentence. We know that from your other posts. Why banned individuals keep using you for a stooge is obvious, you have no thoughts of your own.

Second, Highway 129 is a public road. People drive it daily and will.

Last, why did you post such an intimidating post to people you neither know or have the intention of seeing? To make people think this is a sanctioned event of some type is beyond your comprehension. Anyone who agrees with you in this logic is also an idiot in my book.

MINI people love fun and YOU CAN'T STOP US..


_________________

 

Enough already.... the "official" event has been cancelled. People are still going down there, people are still going to meet. What people do once they get down there cannot be considered at this point to be sanctioned by ANYBODY!!! As the organizers have since withdrawn their support.

Some people are organizing get togethers and party's of some sort or another. Those people carry no more liability than the hosts of any other party, and those involved are willing to accept that.

And you know what, as I've mentioned before I've never ever been to Deals Gap. Heck I don't even know how to get there!!! I'll probably follow somebody down there, (and since we're brining 2 cars my wife will be following me). AND once I get down there, since I'm not in the least bit familiar with the roads, I'll probably follow somebody around too!!! Heck I don't know who I'll follow, but if they're going to the same place I am, what the hell, I'll follow them. And you know what, I don't even care if they are going to be driving a MINI!!!

Get over this insurance thing already, it's been dealt with. Any official driving event is cancelled...

 

And another thing, a group driving event on public roads, that follows all applicable highway safety laws should incur NO LIABILITY. Members of the group who violate the law on their own incur their own liability.

Unless an event is purposely billed and operated in such a manner to violate the local traffic laws, then the organizer of an event cannot be held liable if an incident occurs, even if it involves a third party. If the group knows what the rules are, and the group follows the rules with the exception of a few individuals, the law won't find the group or organizer responsible. However if the actions of the entire or even the majority of the group can be attributed as a causal factor in the incident, than yes the group and the organizer can be held responsible.

The big lesson here is that if you organize a group run on public roads, you must follow all appicable laws. DON'T have a seperate group who wish to have a more "spirited" ride. Or at least A. don't publicize it, and B. Make sure that those drivers understand that they are doing so on their own, and are no longer part of the other group.

 

Uh-oh. I better tell the guys who run a British Car club and meet up at a local pub that, since the events are "official" the club organizer might get sued if someone wrecks on the way to or from the meet, gets sick from the pub food, stubs their toe while at the meet, etc.
Who is this guy and why is such an austere person driving a MINI?

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[img]/albums/album04/gov.jpg[/img]
Visit Vince's MINI page

Visit Sunshine Minis

 

Ya know what? I like 'unofficial' things. These days anything 'official' ends up being designed by committee, corporate, bland, restrictive, prepackaged.

I aint about all that.

I like spontaneous, frivolous, bootlegged, unsanctioned, unsupported, spur-of-the-moment, devil-may-care FUN. I want the thrill of being caught with my hand in the cookie jar. I dont want people around who think they know what is good for me.

And how ironic this thread ended up being titled " * ". The computer geeks among us should know what that means in PC parlance. It means a wildcard. Anything goes.

SOUNDS GOOD TO ME.

 

>>
>>Who is this guy and why is such an austere person driving a MINI?
>>


That's what I'd like to know. If you're so all mighty and knowing, why not just sit back quietly, lurking, and watch all us idiots fail so you can laugh to yourself?

 

FYI: There is no place to refill a nitrous bottle on US 129.

 

:smile: It's BYOB ! :smile:

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MR BRIDGER