MINI E lease
#1
04-07-2009, 08:45 PM
MINI E lease
Hope this is a reasonable first new thread to start.
Today my dealer gave me a copy of the lease in its current form as what we will be expected to sign come D-Day when the Mini-E finally gets delivered.
It sounds like others have also gotten copies of this. Not sure if it would be kosher for me to post a PDF of it here, but a few points I thought were interesting:
1) model is listed as a 2008 Mini E
2) Gross Capitalized cost = $50,713.64, Residual = $43,991.20
Interesting ... Hybrid Technologies LiV Flash = $57,500 but of course that's an aftermarket conversion of a Mini
http://hybridtechnologies.com/orders/mini.html
3) Depreciation+Rent Charge = $10,200 = 12 payments of $850 -- there is also a space (unfilled on mine) for sales tax as well - wonder if that would be added?
4) No option to purchase at the end of the lease and the car must be returned. There is no limit on mileage I can find.
Other than that - clauses for Excessive Wear, Early Termination, and Insurance.
Question -- has anyone heard about a limit on mileage? I know electric vehicles tend to have issues with truly adding on miles, however, if I do commute with this as I expect, I'd venture to guess I'll put over 12,000 miles on it (if not 15,000).
--SJ
Today my dealer gave me a copy of the lease in its current form as what we will be expected to sign come D-Day when the Mini-E finally gets delivered.
It sounds like others have also gotten copies of this. Not sure if it would be kosher for me to post a PDF of it here, but a few points I thought were interesting:
1) model is listed as a 2008 Mini E
2) Gross Capitalized cost = $50,713.64, Residual = $43,991.20
Interesting ... Hybrid Technologies LiV Flash = $57,500 but of course that's an aftermarket conversion of a Mini
http://hybridtechnologies.com/orders/mini.html
3) Depreciation+Rent Charge = $10,200 = 12 payments of $850 -- there is also a space (unfilled on mine) for sales tax as well - wonder if that would be added?
4) No option to purchase at the end of the lease and the car must be returned. There is no limit on mileage I can find.
Other than that - clauses for Excessive Wear, Early Termination, and Insurance.
Question -- has anyone heard about a limit on mileage? I know electric vehicles tend to have issues with truly adding on miles, however, if I do commute with this as I expect, I'd venture to guess I'll put over 12,000 miles on it (if not 15,000).
--SJ
#2
04-07-2009, 08:56 PM
OVERDRIVE
#3
04-07-2009, 09:13 PM
Excellent questions.
1) The Insurance section of the paperwork says this in bold and all caps:
"No physical damage or liability insurance coverage for bodily injury or property damage caused to others is included in this lease." I'm no good at reading these things, but I can't see the collision coverage for the actual vehicle.
2) Nowhere is electricity reimbursement mentioned.
However, I had never heard that before so specifically. What others have mentioned as one justification for the high cost of the lease is that since Mini provides you with charging equipment, the cost of electricity is negligible compared to regular fuel for a whole year. Now, that's not what I'd argue, but I believe that's what I've read others say.
1) The Insurance section of the paperwork says this in bold and all caps:
"No physical damage or liability insurance coverage for bodily injury or property damage caused to others is included in this lease." I'm no good at reading these things, but I can't see the collision coverage for the actual vehicle.
2) Nowhere is electricity reimbursement mentioned.
However, I had never heard that before so specifically. What others have mentioned as one justification for the high cost of the lease is that since Mini provides you with charging equipment, the cost of electricity is negligible compared to regular fuel for a whole year. Now, that's not what I'd argue, but I believe that's what I've read others say.
#4
04-09-2009, 08:57 AM
I havent seen the lease yet, so Im very interested in this.
Capital cost seems a bit low, I think BMW subsidized all the labor in converting it.
Electricity isnt covered, you have to pay for that.
Mileage should be unlimited, I was told they want you to drive as many miles as you can so they have more data from the Field Trial.
That insurance section mentions what it doesnt cover but does it mention what it dose cover? Repairs to the car in the event of an accident, what happens if the MINI E is in the shop for month or more due to an accident or just mechanical problems, a loaner MINI for an extended time wouldnt seem like a fair deal.
no mention of Title fees?
Capital cost seems a bit low, I think BMW subsidized all the labor in converting it.
Electricity isnt covered, you have to pay for that.
Mileage should be unlimited, I was told they want you to drive as many miles as you can so they have more data from the Field Trial.
That insurance section mentions what it doesnt cover but does it mention what it dose cover? Repairs to the car in the event of an accident, what happens if the MINI E is in the shop for month or more due to an accident or just mechanical problems, a loaner MINI for an extended time wouldnt seem like a fair deal.
no mention of Title fees?
#5
04-10-2009, 08:30 AM
The lease does not mention anything that BMW/Mini would cover at all.
It does not have any section regarding a loaner or otherwise. It does say this:
"You are responsible for repairs of all collision, accident, and other physical damage that is not a result of normal wear and use."
In Section 24: Registration, Titling, and Taxes:
"I agree to pay registration, title, license, inspection fees and other official fees and taxes in connection with the Vehicle when due."
It goes on to say that if Mini pays for them, then we have to reimburse them within 60 days.
It does not have any section regarding a loaner or otherwise. It does say this:
"You are responsible for repairs of all collision, accident, and other physical damage that is not a result of normal wear and use."
In Section 24: Registration, Titling, and Taxes:
"I agree to pay registration, title, license, inspection fees and other official fees and taxes in connection with the Vehicle when due."
It goes on to say that if Mini pays for them, then we have to reimburse them within 60 days.
#6
04-10-2009, 01:21 PM
OVERDRIVE
"You are responsible for repairs of all collision, accident, and other physical damage that is not a result of normal wear and use."
Here's a problem I see with that clause: I could be really expensive to repair damage to this car because it's basically custom. The replacement cost is evidently listed on the lease, so at least that's in writing. Your auto insurer will of course have to be notified that you're driving a new car, but when they try and lookup the rates it's not going to be there. Some companies may not even insure prototype vehicles. Better check that deal out ahead of time, you don't want an ugly collision bill to surprise you. I would've thought that Mini would cover collision since basically only they can fix it and get parts, etc.
Here's a problem I see with that clause: I could be really expensive to repair damage to this car because it's basically custom. The replacement cost is evidently listed on the lease, so at least that's in writing. Your auto insurer will of course have to be notified that you're driving a new car, but when they try and lookup the rates it's not going to be there. Some companies may not even insure prototype vehicles. Better check that deal out ahead of time, you don't want an ugly collision bill to surprise you. I would've thought that Mini would cover collision since basically only they can fix it and get parts, etc.
#7
04-10-2009, 03:24 PM
2nd Gear
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hold it a second - who is the "you" in the lease - Mini or the lessee? In the section on title etc. it says "I" so I'm guessing this lease is written from the drivers perspective - I = driver and you = Mini. A weird way to do it, but then the collision section makes sense - because Mini has said that they must cover collision for the reasons stated above - prototype etc. Mini has made it clear that we are only responsible for liability insurance.
Trending Topics
#8
04-12-2009, 08:19 PM
1st Gear
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Maplewood NJ
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The above couple of posts are really confusing. My MA has been telling me that the only insurance I need is liability. But if I damage the car (drive into a tree), that is normally collision/comprehensive coverage, no? And I thought they covered? It would be nice if this were cleared up, fast.
And whoever has a PDF of the lease, please do post it—it's not like it's secret or something. MINI should have e-mailed it to us weeks ago, if they want to keep us informed.
And whoever has a PDF of the lease, please do post it—it's not like it's secret or something. MINI should have e-mailed it to us weeks ago, if they want to keep us informed.
#9
04-13-2009, 09:42 AM
OVERDRIVE
A little confusing (the wording). If they say they'll provide collision that makes sense though, just make sure it's easy to understand. The liability that the driver must provide also needs to be cleared with your ins. co. because it's a prototype auto, not one they can look up on a chart and plugin to your driving history, age, etc. I'm sure they'll do it but it might require someone higherup to go over it first.
#10
04-27-2009, 03:59 PM
Just did a quick back of the envelope on the lease terms (gross capitalized cost 50,700 and residual valueof 43,991- if that's the case the interest rate of the lease is around 7.4%, which is pretty stiff given that they can refinance probably at below 1%. It is as if we are taking up a consumer loan for that interest rate. So if anybody is still debating whether paying the sales tax (NY, CA), title, registration and lease for a total of about $12,000 is too much, it is to some extent due to the high interest rate embedded in the lease. If that interest rate was at market conditions, the lease could be lower by about $100 plus tax. 
#11
04-28-2009, 11:56 AM
I just got off the phone with a friend who works for an environmental not-for-profit here in NJ and was told that they were offered two MINI E's at a lease rate of $10.00 per month!!! That's $480.00 for leasing two MINI E's for a whole year. They are obviously having trouble leasing these all out and now I'm feeling stupid paying for a big fat lease while others are getting it for next to nothing. This take two offer has been offered to more than one local not-for-profit here in Morristown, NJ. 
I'm pissed!!!
I'm pissed!!!
#12
04-28-2009, 12:05 PM
2nd Gear
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes. Per the Facebook Mini E site, they are doing the same thing on the West Coast. In this article, Mini is offering the $10 deal to the City of Manhattan Beach, a well known enclave of poverty (not!).
They have also reopened the application process on the Mine E site, though they are still noting the $850 lease. Who knows, maybe they'll adjust everyone down - not that it may matter to me, since I just learned CFCI wants to charge me $1,500 extra for my charger install, and I'm just not willing to pay that on top of the lease.
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_12230995
They have also reopened the application process on the Mine E site, though they are still noting the $850 lease. Who knows, maybe they'll adjust everyone down - not that it may matter to me, since I just learned CFCI wants to charge me $1,500 extra for my charger install, and I'm just not willing to pay that on top of the lease.
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_12230995
#13
04-28-2009, 01:05 PM
I got a call from the MA I've been dealing with for the MINI E this morning/afternoon asking further detail about the electrical upgrade cost I told her about Friday. She very nearly pleaded with me to have CFCI come and do the inspection anyway to see if they could come in lower (no way) and therefore put me in a car.
Thinking it over afterwards, I came to the same conclusion that I think they are having trouble finding homes for all of these MINI Es. Seeing the above two comments only confirms this. I told her to go ahead and continue with CFCI to do the inspection, but I really don't see myself going through with the lease.
Thinking it over afterwards, I came to the same conclusion that I think they are having trouble finding homes for all of these MINI Es. Seeing the above two comments only confirms this. I told her to go ahead and continue with CFCI to do the inspection, but I really don't see myself going through with the lease.
#14
04-28-2009, 02:10 PM
2nd Gear
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes. Per the Facebook Mini E site, they are doing the same thing on the West Coast. In this article, Mini is offering the $10 deal to the City of Manhattan Beach, a well known enclave of poverty (not!).
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_12230995
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_12230995
According to the article, Manhattan Beach may get 10 of the Mini E's. Wow, a lot of people must be backing out!
It is a bit annoying to think I'll be paying nearly as much in one month as they will be paying for 10 cars for the whole year
Last edited by soareyes; 04-28-2009 at 06:45 PM.
#15
04-28-2009, 07:20 PM
1st Gear
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Maplewood NJ
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just got off the phone with a friend who works for an environmental not-for-profit here in NJ and was told that they were offered two MINI E's at a lease rate of $10.00 per month!!! That's $480.00 for leasing two MINI E's for a whole year. They are obviously having trouble leasing these all out and now I'm feeling stupid paying for a big fat lease while others are getting it for next to nothing. This take two offer has been offered to more than one local not-for-profit here in Morristown, NJ. I'm pissed!!!
I'm pissed!!!
#16
04-29-2009, 07:39 AM
BMW originally announced that 50 of the MINI E's would be used in corporate, or Government test fleet, they announced they were giving 10 to NYC a few months ago. It's a sad but true fact that no Government and few businesses would pay to be a part of a electric car test program, I'm guessing all those 50 MINI E's will be leased for free or nearly so.
I still havent heard back from CFCI after my inspection, also saw the MINI E at the NYC autoshow, I was underwelmed with its looks, and my fiancee just called the colors inside and out UGLY. Im still planning on going through with this, but I'm having a harder time justifying it.
I still havent heard back from CFCI after my inspection, also saw the MINI E at the NYC autoshow, I was underwelmed with its looks, and my fiancee just called the colors inside and out UGLY. Im still planning on going through with this, but I'm having a harder time justifying it.
#17
04-29-2009, 08:31 AM
2nd Gear
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder if the electrical subcontractors are padding their numbers. Think about it. If you were an electrician and MINI came to you and said "Go install these boxes. We'll cover the first $xxx dollars per install." Are you going to bill MINI $xxx or $xxx + 10%?
<\ConspiracyTheory>
#18
04-29-2009, 09:44 AM
2nd Gear
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think you needed the "Conspiracy Theory" disclaimer. I don't know that I'd call it "padding" per se, it's just business. I mean, you're an electrical contractor, probably hurting a bit for business, and you've been asked to quote a cost for some electrical work, and the customer is someone affluent enough to afford an $850/month lease - it's just economics at work in a free market. No harm no foul, but you have to see it as a straight business negotiation. That's what I'm going through right now with CFCI.
#19
05-02-2009, 08:06 AM
Here is the latest word I got from MINI on the insurance. It is in the weekly newsletter sent to the "Poneers":
So collision and comprehensive is included. All I need is liability insurance. Funny thing is that when I called to get a quote the insurance company wanted a VIN. I told them that not only don't I know that yet, I also doubt if the car itself is in their computer. I was right and all they could give me is a ballpark estimate and say that they would offer me the insurance. I don't know how it compares with Liberty Mutual's (MINI's chosen insurer) prices.
-Stu
http://www.stuartistry.com/my-mini-e
LET’S CLEAR IT UP: THE LEASE & COVERAGE
We understand that there may be some confusion when reading the lease regarding who is who referenced in the lease and what insurance is required to be purchased by you and what MINI provides as part of the lease. So let’s clear it up.
First, like all leases:
- Lessee is the customer
- Lessor is the dealer
Below is the definition found on the first page of the contract:
“2. Agreement to Lease. This Motor Vehicle Lease Agreement (“Lease”) is entered into between the lessee and co-lessee (“Lessee”) and the lessor (“Lessor”) named above.
Unless otherwise specified, “I,” “me” and “my” refer to the Lessee and “you” and “your” refer to the Lessor or Lessor’s assignee.
“Vehicle” refers to the leased vehicle described below.
“Assignee” refers to MINI Financial Services, a division of BMW Financial Services NA, LLC (“MINI FS”). MINI FS will administer this Lease on behalf of itself or any assignee. The consumer lease disclosures contained in this Lease are made on behalf of Lessor and its successors or assignees.”
The second point to clarify is the Collision Coverage and Liability Insurance.
Comprehensive and Collision coverage is included with the vehicle. The Lessee is responsible for Liability Insurance only as specified in the contract.
We hope this clears up some of the confusion.
We understand that there may be some confusion when reading the lease regarding who is who referenced in the lease and what insurance is required to be purchased by you and what MINI provides as part of the lease. So let’s clear it up.
First, like all leases:
- Lessee is the customer
- Lessor is the dealer
Below is the definition found on the first page of the contract:
“2. Agreement to Lease. This Motor Vehicle Lease Agreement (“Lease”) is entered into between the lessee and co-lessee (“Lessee”) and the lessor (“Lessor”) named above.
Unless otherwise specified, “I,” “me” and “my” refer to the Lessee and “you” and “your” refer to the Lessor or Lessor’s assignee.
“Vehicle” refers to the leased vehicle described below.
“Assignee” refers to MINI Financial Services, a division of BMW Financial Services NA, LLC (“MINI FS”). MINI FS will administer this Lease on behalf of itself or any assignee. The consumer lease disclosures contained in this Lease are made on behalf of Lessor and its successors or assignees.”
The second point to clarify is the Collision Coverage and Liability Insurance.
Comprehensive and Collision coverage is included with the vehicle. The Lessee is responsible for Liability Insurance only as specified in the contract.
We hope this clears up some of the confusion.
-Stu
http://www.stuartistry.com/my-mini-e
#20
05-02-2009, 08:47 AM
2nd Gear
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stu - my insurance company said exactly the same thing, that they couldn't give a quote without the VIN. They did send a letter to the dealer saying they would insure me though once they get the VIN.
I'm wondering if the VIN's of these cars will tag them as a normal Mini, or as a specially constructed vehicle that they are?
I'm wondering if the VIN's of these cars will tag them as a normal Mini, or as a specially constructed vehicle that they are?
#21
05-03-2009, 10:23 AM
I used the VIN of a display vehicle on the NY Auto Show and that worked fine, got about 25% cheaper quote from the existing insurance than from Liberty. The VIN is WMWMF74598TK95444
Of course your ultimate VIN will differ, but you can use one to get a quote and do comparisons.
Best
Klaus
Of course your ultimate VIN will differ, but you can use one to get a quote and do comparisons.
Best
Klaus
#22
05-19-2009, 01:41 PM
I spoke to some people who work at a So. Cal. city at the CA MINI event and they said they are leasing a MINI E for a very nominal rent. I asked what they said to MINI to get the rate and they told me that they said "It wasn't in our budget this year so can we get one for cheaper."
I don't think MINI is treating its testers/customers/pioneers honorably.
On another note, I e-mailed Clean Fuel Connections and asked them to drop my additional installation charges and they did. (Granted, it was less than $200, but money is money.)
However, in seeing the rates cities, etc., are getting I'm very inclined NOT to lease the MINI E. I'll save my $928.63/month (includes 9.25% tax rate in LA County) and use that to buy--not rent--an electric vehicle or plug-in hybrid in a year.
I don't think MINI is treating its testers/customers/pioneers honorably.
On another note, I e-mailed Clean Fuel Connections and asked them to drop my additional installation charges and they did. (Granted, it was less than $200, but money is money.)
However, in seeing the rates cities, etc., are getting I'm very inclined NOT to lease the MINI E. I'll save my $928.63/month (includes 9.25% tax rate in LA County) and use that to buy--not rent--an electric vehicle or plug-in hybrid in a year.
#24
05-20-2009, 01:28 PM
I agree. I spoke to the program coordinator Hugo today as he was at a test drive event of a local dealership and Mini does not budge on the lease rate for individuals. Pretty annoying but since there are enough people willing to not only pay taxes but also subsidize the cities' traffic enforcement (I guess that's what the Mini E's will be used for), something like a double tax, Mini can afford that stance. And I will most likely opt out for that reason plus the extra cost for the charger installation. Also it seems like the whole process is so inefficient: Let's step back- we all signed up for this thing in December or so. That's roughly 6 months ago. The vehicles are sitting in some CA lot since march (the batteries will likely be fully drained and not be up to par anymore). Who in the world has the flexibility of saying "ok I will wait another month to start the lease" or "Please, Mini, please, let me pay you an X5 lease rate for a 2 seater with cloth seats and manual seats". I guess I am finding out that I am not that enthusiastic to argue in favor of a coal fired car (I appear not to be an early adopter I guess).
#25
05-20-2009, 02:17 PM
