Check out the June Motor Trend - they do a very extensive test of the 10 best handling cars available in north america. The GP does very well in the comparison and inspires the most confidence in one of the tests. There's simply no way I can summarize the article here (it's three sections - tests, track, street), but let's suffice it to say that the 997 Porsche 911 GT3 is pretty much the ultimate in handling.

It's a very educational article, too, in that it takes the time to explain exactly what handling dynamics are and how they're tested. Sports car racer Max Angeleli took the 10 cars for laps around Laguna Seca and weighed in with his opinion. He loved the GP, calling it a little racecar.

As best I can remember, the 10 cars tested were:
Civic SI
MINI GP
Mazdaspeed 3
S2000
Evo 9 MR
911 GT3
Cayman S
z06
Exige S
BMW 335i (sports package, nothing else)

The GP was better than its direct competitors (mazda and civic) in many areas, but the mazda had faster lap times. That might be due to the 50 extra ponies.

Anyway, pick it up, it's a great read if you like handling, track cars, and putting objectivity to some subjectivity.

mb

 

This will probably be available online next month.... one hopes.

 

Yeah, it was great to see that the MINI GP finished 5th overall - behind the Evo, Lotus, Cayman and 911 GT. Not bad company.

I was wondering if they ran w/ runflats. I'm thinking some of the performance numbers for the MINI would be better had they switched from stock RF's.

 

Such tests are always run with cars bone stock. It is the only fair comparison unless you are going to test with exactly the same tires on all the cars.

BTW, Corvette Z06 and BMW 335i also have runflats standard.

 

Yes, they did run the dunlop sport runflat tires. But to be fair, they ran every car on its stock tire setup, so that meant street tires for every car except the Exige and GT3. I would have liked to see them put the same tires on each car, but they had their reasoning for doing it the way they did.

Let's see, based on that test, the only cars that handle better than a GP are the evo, lotus, cayman and GT3? Pretty freakin' awesome!

mb

 

The GT3 and Exige run street legal R compounds OEM. There is nothing wrong with that but clearly both those cars are meant meant for the track as "tuner" cars from the factory (well the GT3RS is since the GT3RSR is the race car).

Considering price, the GP did very well. I have read the Z06 ppl are not to happy.

 

I find it odd that the Mazdaspeed3 is on the list, but not the RX-8 or MX5 (miata) as both of those cars are known for their handling.

Congrats to the GP!

 

Yea, there're lots of cars that might deserve to be there.

mb

 

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...id_engine.html

Explains it all. Miata and RX-8 did not make the initial cut over the S2000.

 

Great link! Thanks for that.

 

Actually the Z06 does not use runflats, the standard Corvette does.

Here is a link to a major Corvette forum where everyone is complaining..

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1689308

 

I think the Ferrari 460 would have spanked everyone. Those who have raced both have said the Ferrari is an absolute dream to drive fast whereas the Porsche is a workout. No Ferrari??? I spent a few hundred miles behind the wheel of a 360 on the track and it is an amazingly easy car to drive fast; it feels as if no one element stands out, but that the entire package works for you at speed. And no, I was not driving at 10/10s...I didn't have 200K if I broke it. I also drove this friend's previous 355 at a fairly sustained 155mph...but that's a story I cannot write here. It was soooo solid at that speed. My friend likes me.

Every man should have a Mini, and a Ferrari. I fell in love with Minis and Ferraris at a very young age.

 

Wow. I wonder if we all sound that ignorant and stupid. In the first three pages, maybe 2 people actually read the article!

mb

 

Well reading some of the "banter" in some technical threads and mudslinging (my "performance part" is bigger than yours) ... an outsider might think so.

 

Agreed! Guilty as charged on some counts! Gotta work on that...

mb

 

Anyone else see a little racing Borat in this guy?

 

Most Corvette owners think that their car is the god of all cars. I used to own a 2001 Z06. It did well for what it was. But the car did feel big and you felt every bump in the road. They still have leaf spring suspension, which actually works well when pushed to its limits. But everyday driving, it sucks. The car really needs coilovers. What also killed me about them is they kept saying ' add these tires' or 'put headers on it and tune it'. Most of them failed to understand that it was a 'stock' competition, I think that all the cars would have done better if they had the option to change to a more sticky tire. It was a best handling contest, not a fast time contest.

 

It's really a fascinating read, that thread. There's a smattering of reason involved, but most people read two posts, found the results, and called the authors idiots.


mb

 

However, I do agree with them that a good test would be to put all cars on the same tire. Widest possible on the factory wheel. Thats the most fair way I can think of, in handling.


Though, the stock tire idea works as well... I'm just curious how well the MINI really could do.

 

I think that stock vs stock is the only really fair way of conducting a test like that, because as soon as one thing is changed, it becomes incredibly hard to draw the "what if" cutoff. Should the MCS then have $40k of mods thrown at it to negate the price difference between it and the Z06? Like gci said, this is not an outright fastest lap time contest, because then one could just pick up an Ariel Atom and beat all comers. I suspect (eagerly awaiting the chance to read it online) that the comparo consisted of a fair amount of subjective valuation of what handling really is...breakaway feel, predictability, comfort behind the wheel, and maybe even street handling/ride balance.

 

If you put any tire on any car, most likely nothing will change as every car below the GT3 will just move up closer to the GT3 but I seriously doubt the MINI will make any ground on the four cars better than it. There is a reason they cost more and have different engineering for different purposes.

The only reasonable way is to keep everything OEM. You can buy to GPs for the price of a Z06 or 3 for the price of a GT3, but you can't turn lead into gold if all the other cars can do the same thing.

 

Aye, but would the MINI remain in 5th if the lower cars had stickier tires, or would it drop to 6th or 7th?

 

Good question Dunno. I would imagine the Z06 would gain ground but i have no idea. I would guess that it would never gain ground on the cars above except the ones already on R compounds.

 

Yep - the "bone stock" contests can be heartbreakers, especially when a particular car has a lot to gain from a few simple mods.

If you look at the magazine tests from the late 60's and early 70's, a lot of the 425+ horsepower musclecars were turning quarter-mile times in the low 14's to mid 15's - not very impressive by today's standards. Of course, most of that was because they were on six-inch wide bias-ply tires. When buyers took those same cars and put headers and slicks on them, all of a sudden they were 12-second cars.

So, was a '71 Hemicuda a 14-second car or a 12-second car? It's all perspective.

 

But to be fair ... all the cars get to do the same modifications and then what's the point? Is all relative. Motor Trend said:

Of course, all these contenders are terrific handling cars, and any might respond well to some savvy chassis tinkering-just don't expect springs, shocks, or Cup tires to turn any of them into a GT3.) http://www.motortrend.com/features/1...road_loop.html

Results are now posted on MotorTrend.

On most tests, it was middle of the pack and ended up ... in the middle of the pack

For example, in ride vibrations, it was middle of the pack http://images.motortrend.com/feature...de_quality.jpg

but in things like skipad cornering group ... bottom of the list by a pretty big margin http://images.motortrend.com/feature...ng+skidpad.jpg
(sure better tires would be better but put R compounds on all the cars and everything is relative ... they all get better)

Ride quality ... middle of the pack http://images.motortrend.com/feature...de_quality.jpg

Lane changing ... sometimes referred by ppl as MINI handling in traffic - middle of the pack http://images.motortrend.com/feature...ane_change.jpg

A very confusing chart but if you closely at the light green line ... middle of the pack http://images.motortrend.com/feature...spider_web.jpg

Overall, that is some pretty EXCELLENT Company to be in. Its pretty unrealistic to compare the GP against Two Porsches, an Exige and the EVO ... but they gave it a nice writeup ....

As a smile generator, the Mini Cooper S JCW GP is tough to beat. After all, it's a cartoon of a sports car. Everything is exaggerated for effect-acceleration, braking, cornering, and bumps in the road. http://www.motortrend.com/features/1...road_loop.html

For the money ... it did well.