Hi there, I'm about to buy a set of 4 holies as i read here that i should get a better ride. I decided it was time, when i went over a pot-hole and i headbutted the roof . (no dent ). I thought i might get a different experience with the 15"'s on - someone said holies were lightweight and would give a quicker ride from 0 .

My runflats are close to replacement and i don't like the idea of 2 new tyres costing more than this second-hand set of holies with newish tyres on them.

I will need one of these foam things though i guess.

Please give me your comments and experiences - i wil report back with the road-test next week.

Chris
UK

MC02 Black (looking at a few MCS - just can't help it)

 

I have the 15" holey wheels on my cooper right now. That's what i ordered the car with. I must say the ride is very compliant and i don't have any complaints. But take any turn and you can immediately see that 175/65R15 tires are NOT meant for cornering performance! :-P But the lightness of the wheel/tires (tyres? haha) does add some pep.

I'm going to go into 18's with 215/35R18's Nitto 555's so i'll let you know how big the difference is.

 

If you have an MC and 17" S lytes with runflats you WILL notice the difference when you move to 15" holeys and non runflats.

To use with the 15x5.5" Holeys you can choose different sets of tires-

175/65-15 is stock sized. Good for winter driving in light snow, good for rain, lower rolling resistance, comfortable for street use and commuting, lightweight and fairly cheap, good wear. Not high performance.

185/60-15 a little firmer ride, good for street use.

195/55-15 less selection of tires, firm ride, good performance.

205/55-15 Good selection of tires, Very good performance with acceptible comfort.

I have my MCS riding right now on a set of completely stock holeys with 175/65-15 tires. They do just fine for commuting until I whip around a corner and then they complain so I stick to the posted speed limits and everyone is happy.

 

Great info, exactly what i'm looking for. I'm reading a recent new UK mag (Modern Mini-october issue), and my Cooper is 2001 with Sports plus suspension. The general view is this is waaaay too hard, which might be part of my problem - i am also looking into changing the suspension, but want to try the 15"'s first.

My daily trip to work is windy potholed roads. As well as the MC needing a service in 750 miles my fillings will need a check up at the dentist....

 

I recently went from 16" runflats to lighter stock MINI reg. rims and 15" Continentals on my '04 MC with Sports suspension. HUGE difference in handeling and ride. Wish I had done it sooner!

 

I would think that going from the factory size 175/65-15 to a 205/55-15 would be enough to throw off your speedometer calibration.....wouldn't it?

Someone said that their 175/65-15's "complained alot" around corners. I just want to clarify that this has nothing to do with the tire size and everything to do with the type of tire.

All-season tires have lots of "syping" (little cuts in the tire) to help with traction on ice and snow. But in dry weather they cause the tires to really squeel around corners. If you like cornering, I would suggest a set of winter wheels/tires and a seperate set of summer wheels/tires. Most summer tires don't squeel at all around corners and offer increased grip in the dry.

I know a lot of the autocrossers run a smaller size tire than the factory diameter to get better gearing for better accelleration. But they don't care if their speedometer is not reading correctly while they are on the race track.

BTW, don't forget about tire pressure. Small cars like the Mini are more sensitive to tire pressure. One the inside drivers door, it lists the factory recommended tire pressure for your car with the factory tires. Ours (16-inch run flats) are listed as 30 psi Front/Rear. That's lower than most other cars. Make sure a mechanic didn't put too much air in your tires.

 

No, the speedometer error from the decreased tire diameter is about one-third of one percent. That's smaller than the accuracy error of the speedometer assembly itself, and is smaller than the resolution of the speedometer gauge would allow you to see.

Ignoring the meter accuracy for a second, changing the tire size would mean that when you're traveling 60 MPH, the speedometer would read 60.2 MPH

Scott

 

highly recommended ... you will instantly lose about 25lbs a corner in weight ... which alone will make the car feel super tossable and light on its feet ... not to mention the cushier ride you mentioned

holies rock!!!

 

I belive the correct size to get in 195 ... is 195/60/15 for accurate speedo.

Pretty deep selection of tires in this size as well.

 

Yes, while both 195/55-15 and 195/60-15 will fit the holey rim the later is closest to stock outer tire diameter.

And yes, all season tires will not handle well when pushed through corners hard. They squeal and make lots of noise just before you skid out of control.

All season tires wear well, offer more comfort, usually lower road noise and wear longer.

Ultra High Performance or Max performance summer tires work better for cornering at speed but don't last , ride rougher and cost more.

lunnon,

Your MC with Sport suspension plus is as stiff as an MCS so holeys with comfortable all season tires would be a great place to start. You might not need to change the suspension.

 

I went with 195/55-15 Toyo T1R's on one set of holeys for my MC, the other set of holeys has 205/50-15 Kumho V710 race tires on them. The 195/55 is only 2.2% smaller than the stock 175/65 tire, and I mainly went with that size for the shorter tire (better effective gearing=better acceleration), lighter weight tire, and the shorter sidewall. I don't regret it at all.

-Keith

 

the clock is ticking - i'll get the wheels soon . It sounds like i'll be ok with them without any other set-up changes - i think they will have 175's on. i'll run them and see how they go, and then change to 195's when the rubber goes. The money saved will go to a "bluefin superchip" i think - that should give me 10bhp. Lohan.co.uk seem set up for providing this......

plus some new denso sparkplugs? - i'm looking for a bit more zip from 0 - top end speed is not needed as 60mph in a Mini feels like 80 in a saloon anyway....

hold on....wheels first.....

 

maybe some before and after pic's would be in order........

 

That's interesting. My car, also with 16" run-flats, shows 35 psi F/R on the door jam.

 

While there are not a lot of choices in 195/60/15 as far as "performance" tires, I recently ordered just that size for my '06 Cooper with holeys for following reasons: 1) I did not want to go 205 section width, imo that is way pushing the envelope for a 5.5 inch width rim; 2) Gearing with 5 speed already means about 4000 rpm @ 80mph in top gear, while the engine is very smooth and the revs don't bother me, I didn't want to in effect shorten the gearing even further with 195/55/15 tire size; 3) Most people (including me) who drive solely on the street seldom if ever drive so hard as to "outdrive" a 195/60/15 hi perf. allseason tire - people who think they're driving at 8/10ths or 9/10ths are in fact going about 6/10ths; 4) I found a tire at Edgeracing - Toyo Proxes tpt in 195/60/15 with VR speed rating that is also quite light in weight (18lb). One of the beauties of the 15" holey/175/65/15 combo is that the very light unsprung weight is very noticeable improvement over heavier wheel/tire combos (& Slite/rflat is about as heavy as it gets). The Toyos are $70 per tire and still available - I should have then on in about 5 days. PM me if you want to check on how it works out, & I'll post too.

 

I ran the 175/65/15 contis since new, and replaced them at 21000kms. They were pretty worn out, maybe 25% tread left til the wear bars.

I replaced them with 195/55/15 Kumho 712s because they were dirt cheap, I got the kumhos, plus mounted a set of winter tires I have on another set of holies all for $380 CDN, so that's 4 new tires and 8 mount + balance

In terms of grip level, these Kumhos are a bit better than the 175 Contis. I have a g meter in the car, the Contis usually tops out at about 0.83g or so. By that I mean they would be squealing and sliding, giving up grip. The Kumhos, after running them in to remove the initial non-sticky layer, can manage about 0.88g before they slide and squeal. So a noticible difference, but not massive.

The biggest change is definitely in terms of sidewall flex. The 175 contis' biggest weakness is the insanely flexible sidewall, they are way too soft. I tested it by rocking the car, pushing the roof and see how long it takes the car to settle down. The 175 contis would take about 10 occilations before it was all still again, the Kumhos took about 5. This translates to a really different handling feel on the road. I drive very aggressively usually, I normally take corners at above 0.7g, and the Kumhos are way more stable to drive fast with. The faster the speed, the bigger the difference is between the two tires. The 175 contis would feel very unstable cornering at 90mph even at just 0.5-0.6g, the tire sidewall flex makes the car feel kind of soft and bouncy, and wouldn't settle down in a nice way quickly, the Kumhos are way better.

At the limit and just over, the Kumhos would just slide progressively, although this was after I tweaked my front and rear tire pressures to 40/36psi, and I used chalk to confirm there is no rolling onto the sidewall, only slightly touching the rounded shoulder part of the tire during maximum cornering. The 175 contis would scrub and squeal more before they give up grip, which is safer, I suppose. However the contis would scream for mercy starting at a low 0.74g or so, while the Kumho 712s would only squeal at about 0.83g, so less of a "squealing" window.

Another difference is that the Contis didn't seem to grip enough to allow the suspension to fully set, therefore my rear sway bar mod (18mm H&R) didn't have as much of an effect as when I have the Kumhos mounted. I could get a lot more rotation in the rear if I lift off the throttle mid corner with the Kumhos than with the Contis. I think this is mostly because of the reduced grip level of the contis.

The plus side of the contis is that they do give slightly better gas mileage (about 1-2mpg better overall), and also steering feel and the way the car tracks perfectly straight is very good. The Kumho 712s follows the road camber a lot more, and the steering feels a bit dead on center. However, in the ride department I actually like the Kumhos better, I think that is because the Contis were flexing so much that they felt like an uncontrolled spring, which makes the ride somewhat gittery every now and then. Although big bumps are handled better with the bigger side wall of the contis.

Just as a side note, I also have a set of Kumho V710 slicks 205/50/15 mounted on holies. Those don't flex at all pretty much, same rocking test I did by pushing the roof, these settle down in 1 cycle, very stiff sidewall. The grip level is way higher, up to 1.05g max that I've seen, and probably even more than that when properly warmed up. I also get a LOT more oversteer with the slicks when I lift off, much better cornering attitude control with the throttle with more grip I think.

Do I recommend the Contis? Sure, I think they do provide enough grip for street use for almost everyone, you can go faster with a stickier tire, but you're talking about some quite illegal and frankly, a bit dangerously fast speed here for street use. They ride nice, handle well, great pure steering feel, and worked quite well for the snow I got here in Canada (while the tread was still deep anyway). The downside is that if you do like to drive aggressively, they just don't feel very confident or encouraging, especially at higher speeds (60mph +) They also get quite noisy below about 30% tread left, and hydroplane pretty badly as they wear down.

Personally I feel that 195 is quite wide for the Holey rim at 5.5" wide. The steering already feels a bit wooden at this width, and 205 just won't give you that much more grip, plus the sidewall will be buldging out from the rim quite a bit, which might not be the best thing when you're cornering hard. I'm not sure what the effect will be, but I imagine this would put more stress on the sidewall and might not give the contact patch the optimal shape in that circumstance. I do not feel any change at all in terms of acceleration with the 2.2% smaller overall diameter of the 195/55/15 vs the 175/65/15, nor did I notice much difference with the 205/50/15 either. I suppose the shorter tire do accelerate faster, but not really enough to be felt. Yes I do get better 0-60 time according to my g meter thing, but a few tenths here and there doesn't mean a lot to me (that's why I can happily drive a Cooper and not crave for an S, I'm all for handling)

In the end it is always your choice, and what is the best thing avaliable to you at that moment. For me I am quite happy with the 712s at 195/55/15, and I recommend that you spend some time tuning the tire pressures for whatever tires you choose, it does make a huge difference.

The pictures below are: 1. 175 Contis at about 30% tread left at 18000km. 2. Kumho 712 brand new, sidewall view 2. Same tire straight on view.

 

When i had my sister's set of 15" holies with the coni-contact tires on my MCS, it was the most fun ive ever had in my MCS. Here for the first time i was easily able to get the car sideways and hold the drift throught the corner. I would like to add that the tires held up nicely and did not tear or bubble.

 

My holies go on my MINI tonight. I can't wait! The 15s are sooo much fun! Quiet, smooth, and as others have said, extremely tossable

Anyone have any experience with P3000s (stock tire) in snow?

 

I have mine on now. Acceleration from 0 has improved some, and the ride is very nice compared to the crash/bang of the runflats. Cornering is marginally worse as expected, but i hope to cure that with a set of 195's when the 175's wear out. One major difference seems to be economy, increasing fro 36mpg to nearly 40mpg...

cheers
Chris