From reading some of the original articles (reviews) referenced from Motoringfile, i found several things ...

1. new car 4 - 5 inches longer? Doesn't that about defeat the purpose of being MINI? It seems to never fail that all cars tend to grow in size. We bought this car because it was the smallest and the wife loved it being small. Growing longer cant be a good thing.
2. The sound ... disappointing sounds from the engine. Granted that the whine of a SC isn't he same as the whoosh of a turbo but I never found the whoosh of a turbo particularly great (and we have had two different turbos). While the SC whine .... well it rocks.

 

I'm curious; where you got the 4-5 inch number? I read "the 2007 MINI will grow just a little over two inches (60mm) with no discernible difference in passenger space" from a MotoringFile article dated yesterday, July 26th followed with "all other dimensions are within 1-2 inches of the current model, and not all are bigger".

Though it is true that it's a shame that most cars tend to balloon up with each subsequent generation i.e. the Porsche 911, the case for the new MINI seems a bit different. It's a SMALL increase in size with a sizable weight loss of 180lbs and a nice increase in power and torque. The 2007 MINI S is looking to be pretty formidable....

The sound of a SC as opposed to a turbo...well...that's a personal preference I guess. Though I'll miss the whine of the SC, I think the turbo will probably prove the better set up.

 

Chow, the new MINI is only 2" longer. And come on, 1" on each end does not lengthen the car so much as to question its "mini" status.

 

http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/25-07-06_9

It is said to be 10-15cm longer than the current 3.6m car

As to the weight loss, only a small subset of owners cares about performance. The silent masses that dont post on enthusiasts boards bought for gas mileage, cuteness, small size, etc.

Besides the 911s, even the Toyota Corolla, once a subcompact, is now near 180" long making it "almost" an intermediate. The bigger it gets, the more of the core ppl will not buy because it looses the cuteness factor.

 

it seems we have a disparity...wouldn't be the first time. We'll know for sure soon enough.

 

I trust Gabe at MF over those autonews rags. But seriously, does 2" really eliminate its cuteness?

 

That reference came from Gabe! One of his source articles

10 - 15 cm is 4 - 6". Thats not cute.

 

Well apparantly that has changed.

http://motoringfile.com/2006/07/26/t...i-gets-longer/

 

I think it would be tough to conclude that the current new MINI is exactly the right size for maximum cuteness. If it was smaller still I think it would be even cuter. Would that translate to more sales? I doubt it. I don't think making the MINI a couple of inches longer is going to make it so much less cute that people say they aren't going to buy it cause it's not cute enough.

It's even possible that the size of the 07 could more closely approximate maximum cuteness than the previous version. Of course, the original mini was much smaller, but is it cuter...or just smaller?

 

When I bought my '06 MCS I had no idea it was due for a change in '07. However, I'm sure glad I bought when i did, because I had lusted after the MINI since it's introduction. The '07 may be greater still, but it won't be the same, I for one don't care because i got the car i really wanted. The only people affected by the change are those who were waiting for the right time to get in on the fun and now find they are dealing with a whole new car. Time will tell whether it's better, worse or totally different. That's grist for the message board mill and there will be no shortage of opinions: informed and otherwise.

 

Chows, once again I'm with you on this topic. I'm a bit sensitive to the "bigger is better" approach in the auto industry. Ok, whether it's 2 or 4 inches longer, it's just typical that engineers have to fudge*2!k up a great design in an attempt to improve it.

Upsizing the next gen. is one of two major reasons I dumped my Audi S4 and "traded down" to a Mini. If Mini keeps growingggg, Hey... after a few gens. it will be the size and cost of my 2000 Audi S4.

 

I agree with this, I just bought mine 2 months ago, and then heard on this site that they have a redesigned MINI coming out. And we all know you always want to watch for redesigned models, especially a revampt of the engine i.e. SC to Turbo. From experience of owning three Toyota MR2's, the older years with SC had a longer lasting engine and smoother ride due to the SC working through air/pulley system. The turbo came out in the later year MR2' 91-98, that just ran through the oil, as we all know, and the engine was beat harder and didn't last as long.

Just something to think about when switching from SC to turbo, oh I know of people that took their turbo MR2 and swapped it out from a SC, ran 100% better.

 

There seems to be some confusion over the weight change as well... one source says weight loss of over 180 lbs... the other says a weight gain of 22 lbs (10 kg). We can all speculate all we want, what will matter is the official Mini information in the end.

 

Dude ... A bretheren ...

We bought the first year 1988 Supercharged MR2 ...

155"L 65.6"W 2350 pounds. Yeah thats about 300 pounds lighter than the MCS today. That was some sweet car, the best transmission, handled, IMHO, better than a MCS.

Then I found out, oh boy, TURBO ... WOOT. So we bought a 1991 MR2 Turbo (keeping two 2 seater cars)

8" longer, 1.4" wider. 1 sec faster to 60mph. 150 est top speed (vice 130 for the SC). We hated it. It "felt" MUCH wider, much heavier, a tank in comparison (all things being relative)

Yeah it was faster but not as nimble. The supercharger sounded sweet, right behind your right ear. The Turbo was annoying, spooling up with its whoosh ..., Just not the same thing.

We SOLD the 91 Turbo and kept the 88 Supercharged for 8 years. I wish we still had it.

I would fear MINI is doing the same thing. Go Turbo, yea faster but at what price. Inches DO count. Wider DOES count.

SOUNDS do count.

 

I think we'll all be very happy when it's here.

Matt

 

Could you have possibly confused the longer MINI with the Traveller Concept? I have a hard time believing that they would noticeably increase the size of the MINI Cooper. It is a MINI afterall...

 

No. Go read the articles quoted in Motoringfile. Lots of reviews.

Its all about "feel" and "sound" being part of what is wrapped around you. The MCS feels intimate yet because of the flying brick shape, lots of interior front room in the cabin.

The SC whine is unique. Turbos are ubiquituous.

I voted with my MONEY that the SC MR2, although slower, was a much better car than the MR2 Turbo as a sports car, more nimble, better handling stock. Then Toyota tried a third time with a NA version in the early 2000s and that was a total failure. I just hope MINI learns from the past.

 

A wonderful aspect of the Mini is that it can be made into whatever you want it to be.....or not. It's especially easy because of a very focused and very friendly aftermarket. A stock '07 MCS won't come close to the performance of my modded '06 MCS.....including power. No way, no how. A modded '07? Perhaps.....but I just wouldn't want to give up any of my supercharger candy. How sweet it is!

 

...Just darn glad that I've got my '05 MCS. The 07 looks funny to me.

 

I personally don't think 2 inches in a car length equates to much. The more pictures I see of the exterior, the better I like it. Is it the same as my '06, no, but a new model shouldn't look identical to the old. I'm still waiting to see pictures of the interior as the new speedo and center stack controls are leaving me queasy. As for the engine and the handling, it's possible that both will be improved. The new engine will definitely deliver far superior gas mileage and I'm sure it will be very responsive. Turbos get better with every generation and let's be honest, many of the MCS's have some amount of lag - the existing engine is not the be all and end all of engine technology. I love my '06 but there are definitely areas that can be improved. I would really love to get another 5-6 MPG's while maintaining the same great acceleration and I think the new MINI's will deliver that. The current MCS is a joy to drive and I'm sure the new one's will be, too. Just my two cents.

 

I would have to stand by what Chows4us is saying about going from a SC to a turbo is not good news. It brings a lot of different factors into play, for instance: those who like sound, the SC gives a better and cleaner sound than a turbo, the spooling isn't as nice as you'd think. Oh and on gas milage, reports have said turbo's are better, that is right in certain cases, at lower rpms around 3000rpms. Don't forget that's when the turbo is just starting to spool and increase it's HP. With turbo there's lag and to make up for that lag you have to give more rpms to even get a good start, as for SC's, you get a constant working pulley system.

Then there's modding, yeah you can buy down piping, new waste gates, better blow-off valves, turbo timers, relief valves, and of course a new Greddy TD-06 turbo which is bigger and better, but there goes the life of your engine and the oil it is burning. Not to mention big bucks for that, and then your gas really takes a beating.

Compared to what I have now, and what I have gone through in the past i.e. '89 MR2 SC and '91 MR2 Turbo, I'll stick with my '06 MCS.

In the end, who knows, maybe in '09 the MINI will be back to SC or a more improved turbo.

 

I dunno. There are always pros and cons...

I tend to agree, but some may prefer the "whistle" of the turbo, it's very apparent in the test drive videos. Hard to say one is better..the sounds are just different. I personally like the more mechanical sound of the SC.

If this turbo is just starting to spool at 3k, it would be almost pointless as a real-world car. The test reports say the new motor (with twin scroll turbo) is actually delivering near maximum torque around 1600rpm. That's leaves a very small lag window. The current car certainly has lag too and maximum twist isn't until 4k.

And that's one of the drawbacks of a SC. Even at low rpms, the motor has to turn the SC and it's not giving back power...that's a parasitic power and mileage loss that you don't get with a turbo.


Anything is possible, but I'm not willing to fault the new motor at this point. The character losses in the new design are the things that I hope are revisited. But even those are subjective and we haven't seen the finished car yet.

 

Where did you get the information to know the turbo in the 07 MINI is already in need of improvment?

 

Expect more information sometime in Mid-August. And I'm pretty sure you'll be pleasantly surprised.