Well, I am searching for an Intake for my MCS. I ordered a Webb HDI several weeks back. Just after I ordered from Webb, there was one posted on NAM for sale and I passed on it; I didn't want to inconvenience Webb by canceling my order. Alas, there's no telling if or when it'll be available . So, it's on to something else.

I want some 'sound' but don't want anything too loud - I drive this car every day and have long past the time where I can tolerate or enjoy a lot of noise. I prefer a cleanable/reusable filter, or a reasonably priced replacable filter.

I am planning to install an exhaust system before long, if that makes a difference in choosing an intake; probably a Milltek cat-back. I had considered Webb's exhaust, but it's the same story as the intake - availability is anyone's guess. I was in Phoenix all week on business and had called Mini Works in advance. Victor said I could come by and see/hear the Larini exhaust. Of course, they didn't answer the phone all week, didn't say the office was closed, and didn't call me back, either. (Could the WMS-itis be spreading )

Anyhow, which intake would you suggest and why? What are your experiences with your recommendation.

TIA.

 

I'd say get an Alta CAI... It's not that loud, but it's an addictive sound.

I love mine. I've had an ABD MonsterMINI intake when I forst got my car, but changed it for an Alta one after 1 year. Every aspects of the Alta is better : Look, design, quality, sound, ...

I'm sure you'll like it and will be addicted to the sound !

 

Cant't go wrong with the Alta. I've had mine on since Day 2 of ownership. (now at 82k!) I like it!
Jim

 

+1. If you are looking for the best sound, go with an HAI. I've got one, I know poliezi's got one, and a few other have one. Its basically a filter clamped directly to the TB. Do a search for "Operation HAI."

 

Hi Adam,

Regarding intakes, you already know the big names, Alta, Webb, M7, Madness, etc... Webb is probably good if you can get one, but it sounds like you're not having much good luck so far. Sorry to hear that...

If you go with a CAI, consider two functionalities: providing free airflow and providing that as cold air.

I've got an Alta, and like it. As originally installed it provides good free airflow, however it needs insulation to really provide cold air. Without insulation the massive metal airbox turns into a furnace, heated by the engine and particularly the exhaust system. It is pretty certain that any CAI with a metal airbox will have this same problem.

It's worth mentioning that Alta now sells a nice metal top for their airbox. It may help quiet down the whyne by itself, but being metal, it probably also needs insulation. I don't have one of these (yet, I may still get one sometime for the looks), but the insulation I use completely insulates and seals the airbox, including over the top... It is also worth mentioning that Alta is currently working on insulation for it's airbox and it's top.

There are a number of good intake threads here in NAM. One recent one that I was lucky to be involved with is https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=71139 . It gets particularly interesting around the 4th page of messages. Some much more experienced and estute minds than mine did some very good investigative testing, producing usable numbers, and the results have been good.

A number of us through that study have insulated our CAIs producing some good, noticable results:

1) A definate drop in temperatures inside the airbox.
2) A definate reduction in SC whyne.
3) A noticable throttle response improvement.

Like you, I prefer a quieter car. I also have a pulley, so the un-insulated Alta CAI was even louder than if it were installed in an otherwise stock MINI. But I found it controllable. I learned how to drive without making it whyne too much, in fact it is a good warning that your gas mileage is going down so the noise does serve some co-incidental purpose. I have been much happier with the Alta with insulation and without the whyne, though.

Intakes are particularly difficult to test for HP improvement. In a dyno the airflow, which is key to how an intake works, is simulated and at best compromised. Similarly, in real road tests there are lots of real-world environmental variables like road condition, wind, humidity and temperature. Both testing scenarios also have their own variables including driver and calibration variation...

That said, in the performance computer timed run tests that I've done of my CAI with insulation vs without insulation, the overall horsepower results do consistently point to an improvement with insulation. Those details are also in the above mentioned thread (towards the end), take them for what they are worth to you.

Best of luck with your intake decisions!

-- Don

 

VBG, how exactly have you insulated your Alta box??

I'd like to do that for sure!

Any pics of your setup? or even better, a how-to ?

 

Go with Alta...... Great Product, Great service.......

If your interested. I have a Brand new Alta CAI for sale and a 15% pulley. Both items are BRAND NEW, never used... Here is the ad link:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...75#post1051775

 

Hi,

If you check the https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...ad.php?t=71139 thread reference, especially in the 4th page of messages, it is all documented there...

I'm the one using thermal padding as insulation inside and over the top of the airbox. The only difference from the pictures there is that I've designed a simple new drop-in wire bracing system to prevent the insulation from contacting the Alta filter, I'm no longer bracing from the sides of the airbox.

Let me know if you have any questions about this design.

Best,

-- Don

 

Thanks a lot Don!! That is a great solution you came up with.

One last question : Where can I get that stuff?

 

You're very welcomed!

The corrugated thermal padding is backpacker sleeping pad, "Thermarest" by RidgeRest. I get it from sporting goods stores. My 1st prototype was black, 1 layer, an old version of this material. The newest version -- which I'm currently using -- is 2 layer green/white, and it has a better R-value for insulation. I've tried other thermal padding types, at $20 a roll, the Thermarest is more expensive, but this corrugated padding keeps its shape better in this application.

Instead of using coat hanger for bracing, I went to a home improvement store and bought a package of accoustic ceiling tile hangers. Nice steel wire which bends under working, but holds its shape. To keep it from rattling inside the airbox, I've added some clear neopreme tubing to the section that rests on the OEM airbox bottom.

My Alta CAI installation retains the back partition, just cutting a ~5"x~5" inch window under it's cowl. My design of the insulation and bracing works with or without that being present.

Best,

-- Don

 

Don do you have an pix of your insulation? I did not see them in the the thread that you posted. TIA Michael

 

Hi Michael, here's the link in that thread to my message that contained the original description and pictures... Thumbnails are at the bottom, click on them for larger pics.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...8&postcount=84

If that doesn't work, let me know.

Best,

-- Don

 

Just ordered the MyMini cold air intake #3 from myminiparts.com it look very similar to the Webb HDI intake, I should receive it next week. I will let you know if I like it.

 

Thanks Don, now I understand, coincidentally I have a non installed MyMini CAI just like locomini odered and I was thinking of insulating that before install. You've given me the concept. Thanks!

 

I got one of the first MYMini #3 CAI prototypes from Peter. Just a little tweaking during install but then again it was in early stages.

Love the ITG.

I mated the box up to an Alta Pipe - can't say it does anything but does look cool in blue.

 

I saw your for sale add, Why are you selling your Mymini cai? I thought you liked it, Are you upgrading to the new enclosed version of it? or switching to another type of cai

 

alta all the way, it gives some great sound.

 

JMO .......the AGS is the "exotic"...... of the CAIs I like the HDI but honestly the Alta is an excellent product..... I am not a fan of the HAI....hot air kills power.....

 

Good, the concept should help with any metal CAI airbox.

There are of course lots of variations to this theme. Ultimately you should expect to have 3 results:
1) Cooler temps
2) Quieter SC whyne
3) Noticable new chrispness to your throttle.

If you can work it out, try your intake without insulation first, maybe for a few days, so you can calibrate your ear as well as your butt dyno, then add the insulation. It would be handy if you can easily remove the insulation later on for further testing.

Because this concept quiets the whyne, if you drive using the whyne as a note for shifting, you may also find your driving style has changed too... I know I experienced that along with everything else.

Enjoy!

-- Don

 

Thanks for the replies everyone! This thread has been very informative for me - but poses a few more questions.

I didn't realize that Alta has cover for their CAI now, and I didn't know that MyMini has a similar product. So unless I'm missing something, other than the filter element, there seems to be little difference between the Webb HDI, the Alta CAI and the MyMini CAI. The Webb unit is made from stainless steel, which they claim he a better insulator for heat.

DON, it sounds like any metal box CAI will conduct heat and insulating it would be a big improvement. I guess that the Dinan or JCS composite/plastic CAI's are better insulators. Since they're black material, I wonder if they're really much cooler inside that the metal boxes?

Aside from adding a few dollars to the cost of a CAI kit, why don't the suppliers above insulate their kits in the first place?

Don, you mention cutting a 5x5" hole in the partition behind the CAI. Don't you have to do this anyway? I haven't looked closely at any of the installations, but how else does the CAI get any air, if it has a cover and is bolted to the partition? The Webb HDI replaces the rear partition - don't the others just mate up to the partition?

This CAI from Mini Works is another one that has some insulating properties to the design. Now, I've read the description at least five times and honestly, I don't understand what this unit is all about. Can any of you translate it into something intelligible?

Now, beside the fact that it's not possible to get one, how was my first choice of the Webb HDI better than (if it really is better) than any of the others?

 

Don't discount the filter itself as all are not created equal and transer is not equal either.....NOMO

 

From studies that a number of our more estute people (than I) here have done, it seems plastic, like the stock airbox and JCW use, insulates to a point, but then it also gets heat soaked and doesn't dissipate the heat well. To some extent, so does the 2-layer closed cell foam insulation I'm using, although it seems pretty slow to do that, and it also seems to dissipate the heat pretty quickly once the car is moving.

The HDI 2-layer airbox from MiniWorks does seem to intend to do that. Plus their airbox doesn't have as much volume as Alta's, so it may "encourage" more cooler air to come into the box. My insulation also has the effect of lowering the volume in the Alta airbox.

Also, as mentioned earlier, Alta has revealed that they are designing an insulation layer for their airbox and top. I suspect that most CAI designers are looking at this.

In the installation manual from Alta, the back partition is removed and somewhat replaced by the Alta airbox. The (highly respected) shop that did my CAI install cut the ~5"x~5" window instead -- removing the back partition takes extra time and there are also some other advantages to leaving it in place.

The one disadvantage is that then the back partition has been permanently modified -- anyone wanting to go back to bone-stock would have to buy another back partition.

As you know, Randy's hardware gets lots of well deserved respect. I've not seen his CAI in person yet, but I hear it is well made, whether it is made by his crew or by a 3rd party.

Best,

-- Don

 

One other thing to consider.....the Alta seals against the hood right out of the box. There is really no need to get the "box". By opening up the back of the air box to the area under the cowl vent , you are allowing cooler air to enter the intake. I have no idea what disadvantage there would be to removing this bulkhead, I have never had a problem.

Remember that the heat soak only happens when the car is not moving. While driving at even at slow residential speeds there is more than enough air flow to keep things cool.

 

Hi Scott,

The Alta CAI installations I've seen here among my MINI pals all have a significant gap between the hood and the metal airbox near the intake scoop.

Alta has confirmed this in describing their reasons for making the top for their box, and they also have confirmed that they are currently working on a low-volume insulation for both their airbox and their top.

How much hot air escapes into the Alta airbox without a top is a good question. But there is a noticable difference in filter temperature if you have an insulated airbox and an insulated cover.

Best,

-- Don

 

Funny.........mine seals up against the hood insulation quite well. Maybe because it is an earlier model? (Installed over 2 years ago).