SMF (Street Modified FWD) Is SM class a good place for the MCS?
Is SM class a good place for the MCS?
After two seasons of SCCA Solo II in SM class there are some lessons I have learned.
When you start to autocross you would do best beginning in G-Stock class.
Learn how to drive and get some decent tires (R compounds on spare or competition rims). Starting in SM class might be frustrating unless you like to bring up the rear in a field of 12 to 18 drivers.
Most of us that drive in SM class are there due to upgrading our supercharger pulley. It's a big price to pay and often results in needing to upgrade nearly everything else in order to be more competitive. The rules allow for quite a bit of upgrading the other cars can take full advantage of the rules.
The one mod that helps the SM classed MCS the most in my opinion is light rims and good sticky R-compound tires. My solution is Kosei K1TS 15x7 rims and Kumho V710 tires in 205/50-15 (heat cycled by tirerack). I've also tried
Kumho V700 Victoracers, Michelin Pilot sport cups, and Avon Tech Ra in 225/45-15. While the V710s usually last about 6 to 10 events they perform very well while in their prime.
Suspension upgrades help handling as do camber plates and rear control arms. More negative camber front and rear allow you to make use of more tire and wear them a bit less with hard use. Hoosiers don't last long with a MINI using stock alignment and suspension.
So at the end of two seasons I've improved. On points I got 6th place last year and 2nd this year (lost by one point over an 11 event season). I'll likely stay in SM class rather than start over with a new MCS with lower gearing and factory LSD in G-stock which is really tempting. That setup is getting PAX finishes in my region roughly in the top 1-5 for each event while I get more in the 5th to 9th place on PAX out of about 100 drivers. It's difficult to make up 5-6 seconds on a 60 second course vs the G-stock or H-stock MINI.
When you start to autocross you would do best beginning in G-Stock class.
Learn how to drive and get some decent tires (R compounds on spare or competition rims). Starting in SM class might be frustrating unless you like to bring up the rear in a field of 12 to 18 drivers.
Most of us that drive in SM class are there due to upgrading our supercharger pulley. It's a big price to pay and often results in needing to upgrade nearly everything else in order to be more competitive. The rules allow for quite a bit of upgrading the other cars can take full advantage of the rules.
The one mod that helps the SM classed MCS the most in my opinion is light rims and good sticky R-compound tires. My solution is Kosei K1TS 15x7 rims and Kumho V710 tires in 205/50-15 (heat cycled by tirerack). I've also tried
Kumho V700 Victoracers, Michelin Pilot sport cups, and Avon Tech Ra in 225/45-15. While the V710s usually last about 6 to 10 events they perform very well while in their prime.
Suspension upgrades help handling as do camber plates and rear control arms. More negative camber front and rear allow you to make use of more tire and wear them a bit less with hard use. Hoosiers don't last long with a MINI using stock alignment and suspension.
So at the end of two seasons I've improved. On points I got 6th place last year and 2nd this year (lost by one point over an 11 event season). I'll likely stay in SM class rather than start over with a new MCS with lower gearing and factory LSD in G-stock which is really tempting. That setup is getting PAX finishes in my region roughly in the top 1-5 for each event while I get more in the 5th to 9th place on PAX out of about 100 drivers. It's difficult to make up 5-6 seconds on a 60 second course vs the G-stock or H-stock MINI.
I'm with you, Minihune. I figure I spend 99% of my driving time not racing so I should have the car I want for the majority. That being said, it is a little stiff to drive on pot-holed Western PA roads.
I have a question, though. Why not 225 V-710's? I ran 225 Victoracers last year and plan to run 225 710's this year.
BTW, I have a new mod for this season. I'm hoping 250+ whp will help.
I have a question, though. Why not 225 V-710's? I ran 225 Victoracers last year and plan to run 225 710's this year.
BTW, I have a new mod for this season. I'm hoping 250+ whp will help.
A lot of folks tend to feel that steering gets a little heavy over 205, especially for short tight courses. Yes, you lose the launch control, but you get super snappy steering and a better tendency to kick out the rear.
At least that's the going theory. Personally, I prefer 215.
At least that's the going theory. Personally, I prefer 215.
quick question, are the twincharge/twurbo settups legal for SM??? I've talked to a few non-mini guys who were thinking that a twincharge mini would kill in SM but not sure if that would fly for the class
Originally Posted by rpob5t
quick question, are the twincharge/twurbo settups legal for SM??? I've talked to a few non-mini guys who were thinking that a twincharge mini would kill in SM but not sure if that would fly for the class
Autocross courses are set up limited to highway speeds, in my area that means up to 60 mph for the fastest cars.
Veni_Vidi_Vici,
I've gotten much better results in autocross from 205/50-15 tires. For the V710s there are also 225/50-15 but this is a heavier tire with larger outer tire diameter. I like the lower gearing I get with the 23" tall 205/50-15 and the lower weight is a plus as well. The Avon Tech Ra tires in 225/45-15 were not as tall but heavy- probably ok for track use and definitely wear longer than V710s.
Twincharged would be fine for SM, at least from a rules standpoint. That's a lot of power to run through the front wheels autocrossing, but would be fun to try.
I've been using the 225/45-15 Avons on 15x7 Kosei wheels, and been happy. I may have to give the smaller Kuhmos a try some time. Lots of FTDs regionally with the current setup.
Scott
90SM
I've been using the 225/45-15 Avons on 15x7 Kosei wheels, and been happy. I may have to give the smaller Kuhmos a try some time. Lots of FTDs regionally with the current setup.
Scott
90SM
I'm thinking that tires that are a little heavier will be less of an issue this year with the TurboKompressor. Will the larger contact patch help, though?
As for the extra power not being usable, maybe it's just the Steel Cities region, but there's always at least one area on every course where I'm thinking "C'mon, c'mon!" while the speed slowly builds just in time to brake again. We'll see.
As for the extra power not being usable, maybe it's just the Steel Cities region, but there's always at least one area on every course where I'm thinking "C'mon, c'mon!" while the speed slowly builds just in time to brake again. We'll see.
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19%/head/cam/injectors - OR TwinCharge for SM???
Originally Posted by 90STX
Twincharged would be fine for SM, at least from a rules standpoint. That's a lot of power to run through the front wheels autocrossing, but would be fun to try....
Well, I haven't tried a twincharged car so my opinion is only worth so much.
Nationally, in SM, I suspect it is pointless to run a MCS with about any setup.
Regionally, it matters less. I've got less power than you just described (stock head and cam still) but had FTD this past Sunday by nearly 3 seconds over the second fastest unhandicapped time.
I think the answer of 19+mods vs twin is probably course dependant. In a tighter course I suspect that the 19 might be easier to deal with. Even at my power level with R compounds I still need to modulate the throttle out of turns. More power makes that a bit easier to screw up, but pays off when you have grip and a bit of room to let the car run.
For a couple elements of this past course, I had all the power I could use given the available traction. But there were also a couple spots where another 50hp would have been quite useable.
I suspect that the key to really using the Twincharged setup would be turning for smooth, predictable power delivery so it is easier to apply out of corners, and then some seat time to get your right foot properly trained.
I had the chance to try an ASP SRT-10 Viper last fall. It was a blast to drive, but required constant care on the throttle as it could spin the tires anywhere on course. I felt like it was really slithering around in the chicanes, as the local surface was pretty dirty. I managed to beat the car's owner, which always feels good, but I was nearly 4 seconds faster in my own (much slower) car because it was so much easier find the grip limit everywhere without stepping over the line. Heck, the Viper owner was as fast in my car as he was in his own. He was bored in between corners though.
For the record, the other driver has been competing in Solo I and II for over 45 years in over 100 different cars. He'll probably never read this, but he's a super guy and giving me the chance to try out his new car was super cool! The Mini was faster through the course, but the Viper was a rush and I'd drive it again in a heartbeat.
Got a bit off the obvious topic there, but there is an underlying message. I guess it's time to go to bed.
Scott
90SM
Nationally, in SM, I suspect it is pointless to run a MCS with about any setup.
Regionally, it matters less. I've got less power than you just described (stock head and cam still) but had FTD this past Sunday by nearly 3 seconds over the second fastest unhandicapped time.
I think the answer of 19+mods vs twin is probably course dependant. In a tighter course I suspect that the 19 might be easier to deal with. Even at my power level with R compounds I still need to modulate the throttle out of turns. More power makes that a bit easier to screw up, but pays off when you have grip and a bit of room to let the car run.
For a couple elements of this past course, I had all the power I could use given the available traction. But there were also a couple spots where another 50hp would have been quite useable.
I suspect that the key to really using the Twincharged setup would be turning for smooth, predictable power delivery so it is easier to apply out of corners, and then some seat time to get your right foot properly trained.
I had the chance to try an ASP SRT-10 Viper last fall. It was a blast to drive, but required constant care on the throttle as it could spin the tires anywhere on course. I felt like it was really slithering around in the chicanes, as the local surface was pretty dirty. I managed to beat the car's owner, which always feels good, but I was nearly 4 seconds faster in my own (much slower) car because it was so much easier find the grip limit everywhere without stepping over the line. Heck, the Viper owner was as fast in my car as he was in his own. He was bored in between corners though.
For the record, the other driver has been competing in Solo I and II for over 45 years in over 100 different cars. He'll probably never read this, but he's a super guy and giving me the chance to try out his new car was super cool! The Mini was faster through the course, but the Viper was a rush and I'd drive it again in a heartbeat.
Got a bit off the obvious topic there, but there is an underlying message. I guess it's time to go to bed.
Scott
90SM
Originally Posted by vrrroom vrrroom daddy
So, Scott, (or anyone) in your opinion, would you think a 19%/head/cam/injectors/programming setup MIGHT be a more "usable" setup versus twincharge for auto-x (and it's related speeds) in SM based on what you know or have read? - thanks for your reply! - VVD
For my region a plain 19% pulley would do about the same as 19%/head/cam/injectors/programming but on the track it would be a different story.
Longer straights and higher speeds favor the head/cam/injectors/ECU upgrades.
If the course is setup for up to highway speeds then the 19% pulley alone would work most of the time. More of a difference in times would come from your suspension upgrades, alignment and your wheels and tires.
If you have about 200 HP or near to it then power is generally not a problem, handling would be the limiting factor as well as traction. R compound tires are a must, can be smaller or wider as noted, surfaces do vary as do driving styles.
Of note, in SM class I have to drive 5 seconds faster on a 60 second course to beat GS and HS MINIs on PAX (handicapped) times. The more you upgrade the harder it is to make up the difference. A 2006 MCS with LSD and 6 speed with R compound tires would be pretty tough to beat when driven well.
Turns out the power of the TurboKompressor is perfectly usable on an autocross course. I went to a Test n' Tune 2 weeks ago and ran about 25 laps in the TK Mini. Just like with the 19%, you have to avoid stabbing the throttle which upsets the pitch of the car. If I pretend like the gas pedal is made of tinfoil power delivery is smooth and controllable.
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