Hi. I'm a total HS newb, but with my 06 MC on the way this spring, I'm curious if anyone out there has collected links or has the info about how the top HS coopers have been modded?

Thanks!

-Morgan

 

Search for posts from those MC owners that have done well nationally in this forum.

Basically in H-stock class it is driver skill that makes the "most" difference. So keep working on improving that.

H-stock doesn't allow for much modding but these are common and legal:
Autocross alignment- front toe out 1/16" and rear toe zero, rear camber as negative as you can adjust it and still be even on both sides.
Air filter- drop in foam/paper/green filter- use a new clean one for autocross use only.
Cat-back exhaust- Your choice, the Helix MC exhaust gets good reviews and Miltek has one for the MC.
Shocks- Koni (you might try the stock shocks for a bit)
Front swaybar- you can use any but most use the stock bar.
Stock 15x5.5 or 16x6.5 rims with offset near stock- you can use MINI stock rims or Rota Slipstreams in 16x6.5 or SSR Comps in 16x6.5.
Tires- Some use Hoosiers or Kumho V710s depending on your rims- if you are just starting don't spend too much on expensive tires- some will wear out very fast, about 6 to 10 events.
Schroth harnesses or CG lock to hold you in your seat better.

 

>>rear camber as negative as you can adjust it and still be even on both >>sides

Huh, I went as far positive as I could in the rear. .4

Per

 

Stock rear camber setting is about -1.0 to -2.0 degrees. More negative is better for high speed cornering.

So if you can adjust your rear camber then try for about -1.6 degrees. With the stock suspension you can do a little adjustment but there are limits. Keep in mind you want right and left camber to match so even if one side can go more negative than the other just try to match them but more on the negative side.

Front camber is not adjustable with the stock suspension parts. It usually runs about -0.5 degrees. For a MINI you want more negative camber.

 

Believe me, I understand why negative camber would be good for additional grip. But why would you want more grip on the end of the car that's already working too well? Killing the rear's grip is exactly why people are spending 1k or more on custom valved rear shocks for the 2002-2004 cars.

For more on what we're doing on our H Stock MINI, you can check out the project car page here:

http://grmotorsports.com/news/catego...5-mini-cooper/




Per
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com

 

For autocross or for any performance driving it is always a combination of driver skill and suspension tuning. For some drivers more negative camber is a big plus while for others it isn't as big a factor. If you feel that your level of handling in the rear is sufficient with relatively conservative negative camber settings then that's great and probably a function of your level of driving skill and driving style.

Earlier I had my rear camber set to -0.7 degrees after adding H-sport springs and I drove on the road, on the track, at driving events and at autocross with that setting. It was fine and felt ok.

Since then I have gone to coilovers (Bilstein PSS9) added front camber plates, increased front camber to -2.3 degrees and use -1.6 degrees in the rear and that works fine on the track and at autocross. It's alot more bumpy for street use but it's OK.

The faster you take corners the more you'll need the negative camber.

 

I'm using the lack of negative camber in the rear to balance the lack of negative camber in the front. Think about what you're doing with your camber plates...lots more negative camber in the front = more grip, which then requires you to use more negative camber in the rear so that the car is still driveable.

The original poster was asking about top level H Stock prep, so I was just clarifying that some of the top level H Stockers aren't stuck in the paradigm of using maximum negative camber front and rear.

You'll also notice that the other top level H Stockers are using as much toe out as they can in the rear suspension. Tell me that doesn't kill your rear grip! By using less negative camber, you don't have to use as much toe-out in the rear to get the same effect at turn-in, with the added benefit of being a touch more predictable in faster transitions.

Per

 

It's true, excessive rear negative camber increases understeer which the MINI already has.

So how much camber if too much in the rear? You can try your settings and report your results. Maybe one place to start would be front camber -0.5 degrees (non adjustable but measureable) and rear camber -1.0 or even less than -1 degree.

One thing I do notice also with less negative camber is that the inner edge of the tires doesn't get used- it's cold and the tread is not worn. The outer edge of the tire runs very hot and wears out really fast when used on the track or at autocross (many runs).

 

Yep, that's the cool thing about it being adjustable on the 2005+ cars, you can try different things and see what works best for you.

Beyond that, I'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Per
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com

 

I think you're both wrong......

 

Oh? Do tell! I'd be interested in what your thoughts are...although you're dealing w/ a non-adjustable rear camber car, right?

Let's get some action on these boards!

Per

 

Nothing like a little mud slinging right before the Holiday weekend.......

Really, I'm more on the side of Per for this discussion although I think, with all due respect, that Minihune doesn't fully understand the limitations of competing with a "stock" car under SCCA's rules. To be honest, it gets a little whacky and doesn't always make sense to those who are used to tuning a car without using a rulebook. God knows that last thing most FWD cars want is a bigger front bar but I actually found this set up to be better/faster for me then a smaller. That being said, Mark Chiles uses the opposite approach and has an equally fast car......

It's been said before and I'll say it again. If you're competing in an HS Mini just throw a set of race tires on your 16" wheels and go out and win some races. A stock car should get you within a few tenths of the very fastest Cooper. If you're not within a few tenths do not even bother with these mods because you need to focus on your driving....

Merry Xmas,

Stuart

 

I agree, having subscribed to the Mark Daddio school of car prep, last year (2004) we worked on that SRT-4 until it was almost competitive in DS (two tour wins and 5th at Nats) but darn, were some of those specs weird...1 degree of positive camber in the rear, for example...it doesn't matter what the "number" or adjustment is..it just matters that it works.

Happy holidays to you as well!

Stuart, are you coming to nats this upcoming year?

 

Factoring in a 2 year old baby, the wifes plans and job where the work load peaks in late August/Early September I doubt I'll make Nationals next year. Never say never but it's a tough event for me to make from a logistical standpoint.

Also, ss you might know I am currently playing around with STS right now and depending on how that works out I'll probably stay there in most of 2006. I also have a 911SC that I am setting up for PCA events so that might be taking more of my time next year.

What always leads me back to SCCA is the competition so depending on how HS turns out this year I might scrap the STS idea and continue running in stock class. Right now STS is where it's at locally and I think I can have a lot of fun messing around with those guys. Of course the MINI is too heavy and slow to really be a contender in STS so I doubt anyone will pay it much attention....

Happy Holidays,

Stuart

 

My write-up of suspension tweaks for the Cooper will be in the April issue of GRM.

Per

 

Excellent... can't wait to read it, even though my car's well beyond H-Stock specs (since I autocross with our BMWCCA chapter and spanking M3's and 'Vettes is fun).

 

[FONT=Verdana]I'm still a little confused on HS acceptable wheel sizes. I understand (I think) the SCCA rule basically stating that it must be a factory installed option before it is acceptable for stock class. Your (minihune) posting of [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]12-9-05[/FONT][FONT=Verdana] mentions 15” and 16” wheels but doesn’t mention 17” wheels. Weren’t 17” wheels offered as factory options in 2005? I ask because I’m looking at getting wheels and tires for Solo II and would like to run 215/40/17.[/FONT]

 

15's and 16's were STOCK on the MC
16's and 17's were STOCK on the MCS

As a result, I believe, for HS you couldn't put 17's on the MC and for GS you couldn't put 15's on the MCS.

 

MINI Cooper only comes with 15x5.5" rims or optional 16x6.5" rims no factory option for 17" rims. Cooper S comes with 16x6.5" rims and optional 17x7" rims and no factory option for 15" rims.

For a cooper to use 215/40-17 tires would put you out of stock class. Either STS or FSP class depending on what other upgrades you have. These classes are much more competitive. Stick with a stock class if possible.

 

OK. Thanks for the information. I will assume that you know what you are talking about. you have been at this much longer than I have. I guess that I'm getting confused by the options they show on the MiniUSA website. THere they show, and showed in 2005, 17" wheels as options for the MC.

I'm not sure staying within HS is worthwhile around here. Most of teh time there are too few of us to make a class so we get bumped to the next class, usually GS.

 

Word on the street is that 17" wheels on a Cooper are a dealer installed option (as opposed to a factory installed option), which means they're not legal according to the SCCA stock class rules.

 

The first four tabs on the MINIUSA "build your own" are the factory options, that fifth one with the disclaimer should all be conidered dealer installed and therefore, not "stock".

 

If there are too few drivers in H-stock there is a chance to get bumped to G-stock which isn't really fair. If you have at least three drivers for H-stock you should always ask to run in your own class. In my region, H-stock is alive and well with quite a few drivers and G-stock can be only a few.

Only factory option wheels are allowed for stock classes in SCCA. Many of the other wheels are dealer options as you have found out. Remember that for either MC or MCS the 16x6.5" wheel (X-lyte) is legal for both G-stock and H-stock classes no matter which MINI you have.

 

Hi Per and others:
This is my first post. I'm suddenly smitten with the idea of HS autocrossing my 2005 Mini Cooper. I heard that the April 2006 issue of GRM has an article on prepping a MC for this purpose, but I haven't been able to find the issue. I want to buy a set of 16x6.5 wheels right away, and I hear the article contained a full list of available choices in this size. I'll continue looking for the magazine, and will probably end up subscribing, but I'm hoping to gather the info NOW. Does anyone have this list or some way of transferring the information?

Thanks very much.
Rob

 

Rob,

Welcome to NAM!

I don't recall seeing the wheel article online, but you can read all of Per's updates by following this link to the GRM MINI Cooper Project Car, also check out this link for previous entries (the link for it is a little hidden at the bottom of the page linked above). FWIW, Per is using a set of Rota's currently.