Ok , here goes, I have my flame retardant suit handy.

I promised when the car was done I would post before and after dyno results on my car. My car is a 04 MCS.

This is done to the best of my ability and with all the supporting numbers I could gather. The included charts show the power and torque figures along with A/F charts and conditions. There is no A/F chart for the stock run as it is just flat rich on the bottom of the chart.

I ran the car completely stock on the dyno and got a best run of 151.07 WHP and 130.56 ft-lbs of torque.

After the complete installation of the Cosworth Stage 2+ kit we got a best run of 202.25 WHP and 155.66 ft-lbs of torque. This run was made using the AGS V.2 tube with no filter. We made back to back runs with a filter and without to test to see if the filter was blocking the flow. The difference was less than 1 HP and well within the error tolerance of dyno runs.

Click on my sig to see a complete list of mods.

There are two sets of charts. One set shows a comparison of my base run with the best final run. The second set of charts shows two runs made today, one with the original AGS tube and the second with the new AGS V.2 with improved flow dynamics.

I will let Peter chime in here later and explain the differences in the tubes.

 

As I mentioned in my post to this thread earlier today this thread has now been split and I'd like to give it another try for civil and on-topic discussion. Thanks!

Mark

 

I posted these before, but they apparently got erased with the spread, so here it goes again...

Everything was shipped to me cross-country by Fedex. The shipping quote was really good, can't remember it off the top of my head. All boxed arrived completely unscathed. The head was in its own double box. The intake manifold and supercharger also got their own box. The rest of the kit was in the last box.

All parts were, as you will see, perfectly clean and in great shape .



OK angle of the head:




Rejects:



Awaiting what's coming!:


"I need me a catch can! Note old head air inlets..."






New trick supercharger! Notice the difference...


Look at the work on the head: larger IS better :-D. Also see how smooth it is! Notice lastly the Cosworth ID !



Close-up of head work. Notice how smooth it is!


See the uprated springs...



It looks excited!

Hope you enjoy it. It is a lot of work, but the parts looked awesome! Please, respect that I'm doing this for the community's good. Don't shoot me.

 

so it looks like u stood & watched the whole install......do u think u would be able to do this urself?

everything looks real NiCE & well packed! this answers my earlier ??'s on whether or not u had this 'head' & whether the springs where hopped up on ur ride.

**u know i did forget what this 'thread' originally was about,

 

I turned some VERY LIMITED wrenches in the process. I mainly just moved stuff around and got a good dose of education. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE working with wrenches [hell, I'm going into orthopedics BECAUSE I love that kind of thing!], but that is a SERIOUS job working with the head, especially. Gotta worry about not losing the timing chain placement, gotta worry about correct torque settings, gotta do hundreds of things right. I let the professional take care of it. . Now, if I had actually been trained/had gathered experience in shadetree mechanic stuff already, I would be willing to do it. But, I'm only getting into the tuning game, so I have to be humble...:smile:

 

checked the website for Cosworth and M7 and there is no mention of bigger valves. and from what i read on these and other forums bigger valves are what this motor really needs to open up the torque-potential. do you know ingsoc?

 

The change with big valves is not really huge, from what some tuners have told me. I've heard like a few whp, but then the power picks up higher in the powerband. I thought you might even lose torque down low... Either way, I've heard that it's best for racing engines. That said, word on the streets is that you can get a big valve from Cossie if you ask .Between you and I, though, I've heard that the price of new valves and the changes of power delivery aren't really practical for the street. Of note: the Cosworth heads all have uprated springs. Those make a difference in output at higher rpms, without sacrificing driveability. I have plans for utilizing those revs .

 

cool, thanks dude.

 

looks damn good to me have fun with it whats the $$ for all that good stuff

 

i've heard the same as far as bigger valves not havin' good manners on a street warrior, min coop.

do want them meself:smile: but not if their goin' to compromise torque though....:impatient

 

There are some myths being propagated again. Springs do not produce power in and of themselves. A stiffer spring will allow the valve to operate at a higher threshold before float occurs. There are different methods, materials, and design used in valve springs to address other possible concerns such as longevity, height, circumference, etc.

Larger valves alone do not cause a torque or drivability trade-off. With larger valves (not on a Cosworth head), I gained 40 ft-lbs at my former torque peak; produced increased torque earlier in the power band and drivability has been affected in a positive way, not negative. It is other factors manipulated in concert with the valves that may cause the trade-off effect.

 

40 ft-lbs???? From larger valves?? I've never heard of a head making that big of a difference on a MINI at all! I trust you that springs may not increase maximal torque, but... they would cause the valve to open up quicker, no? That would create more power at sub-maximal excursions. This is how I imagine it.

 

Valves are opened by the camshaft not springs, you may want to read more about engines before talkin tech

 

Of course, the valves didn’t create the difference alone . My point was/is “other factors manipulated in concert with the larger valves” create a possible trade off or probable gain.

Valves opening sooner have to do with cam lobe profile or degreeing the camshaft via an adjustable sprocket and I’m not aware of how a change in valve spring might facilitate earlier opening.

Damn this rural dial-up can be frustrating by the time I process my reply, I’m already behind because of all those very nice, but too large for my dinky throughput, pictures.

 

Wait a second boys. Yes, a camshaft's lobes push a valve up. But, let me ask you a question, why are the springs there? They are compressed and then contract again. Picture:


That was the my old head assembly, with rockers. Now, I thought that the springs, by their different rate, helped keep the valves open longer. I may have been wrong. But, I indicated that that is what I thought.

 

**the usual suspects plus more new ones**



why is it that more & more people feel like they need to b harsh & nasty jus because they THINK they know better....... cuz if they knew better they would KNOW how to treat people!!!

 

The springs are there to close the valves after the rocker arms have opened them. Otherwise, they would simply fall into the cylinder. Not good. As was mentioned earlier, stiffer springs generally allow higher RPM performance as they prevent the valves from 'floating' or failing to fully close, thus compromising the combustion cycle.

 

......therefore compromising power yes?

 

Well sort of back on the topic.

The job of valve springs is to close the valve as the lobe leaves the valve stem.

The point of stronger valve springs is to be able to close the valve in higher rpm situations. Stronger valve springs help to prevent "Valve Float" at higher revs.

ingsoc, I hope that sheds some light on the topic.

Bill

 

Welcome to the Cosworth and the 200 club.

 

Got it. Thanks Eric and Bill. That's all of the explanation I needed.

 

Check this site:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm

 

As an aside, I'm happy to have the uprated springs for another, most important reason- If all goes well, I'm gonna be running over 8000 rpm in the next couple of months, boys . Care to question that?

 

this nugget is misleading at best, if not altogether wrong, and was happily accepted by the next three posters:

"The change with big valves is not really huge, from what some tuners have told me. I've heard like a few whp, but then the power picks up higher in the powerband. I thought you might even lose torque down low... Either way, I've heard that it's best for racing engines. That said, word on the streets is that you can get a big valve from Cossie if you ask .Between you and I, though, I've heard that the price of new valves and the changes of power delivery aren't really practical for the street. Of note: the Cosworth heads all have uprated springs. Those make a difference in output, without sacrificing driveability. "

I'm sure ingsoc has the best intentions, but as minimute points out: "you may want to read more about engines before talkin tech"

 

ok...here is some info, basically old news:


the mini suffers from dinky exhaust valves and ports (take a look at a honda head for comparison). If you can make it breath better by combustion chamber shaping, larger openings, more valve lift, better valve stem shape, seat angles, guide shape, clever port shaping, anti-reversion steps, you will get more fresh charge in, burned, and burned more completely, resulting in more power throughout the band. That part has nothing to do with springs. When you start upping the rev limit, you have to get those valves closed more quickly, needing more spring pressure, you need to get rid of spring oscillations that might let the valves bounce and you need to lighten the entire valve train to reduce the reciprocating weight. eventually as the revs go up the valves will start to not move fast enough to follow the cam lobe and you may get piston/valve contact and definitely a power drop.

so yes, the larger valves are the way to go, if done right. higher rpm's may work out as well, but then you start to stess the engine considerably more. Rod stretch, for example can move the pistons closer to the valves than you want.

check this out and start boning up:
http://www.theoldone.com/articles/h22a%5Fhead/