Excellent! Thanks for taking the time to spread the love. Give this I'm going to remove the above comments so that this thread can stay focused on the main discussion points. Now back to our regularly scheduled technical discussion. Thanks again!

Mark

 

Good luck with that. Are you still running the stock intake and SID?

 

that's crazyness...have you dynoed since you got your head and stuff...if so what are you making....WHP and TQ?

 

[size=2]Nothing crazy about revving to 8000. Especially with sub 200hp.

[/size]

 

I'm planning for a whole big bunch of goodness all at once.

 

hmm....i wonder?

will a super duper IC be in place? (part of ur goodness)

 

Hey!!!! Shoosh you ! J.k. Anyways, no special IC this time around. I gots ma' plans.

 

This quote should get everyones attention, "If you can't deliver a quality mixture to the cylinder, all the flow numbers in the world aren't going to make the engine run better."

And this shot of an ENDYN reworked Honda head shows that science can be art.

"Please note the raised large diameter radius in the chamber floor between the exhaust valve seats. We've kept this area raised to maintain compression and influence the flow to the individual seats. The sides of the combustion chamber are rolled surrounding each seat, while the central side area is still "bulged", as a mixture and flow enhancing device. The exhaust valve seats are a full calculated radius with a single discrete angle for valve face contact. As mentioned earlier, the intake seats are of the variable radius configuration with a single discrete seat angle. It should be evident in this picture that the approach shapes (radius) on the long-side of the bowl / seat are very steep, with the radius becoming more full as the seat works to the short side. This is critical to power production from the intake side."

 

Umm. ::scratches head::. ::pauses::. ::counts with his fingers::. Pickler, I've got just a little [] more than 200 hp. Try 200 whp, plus a few more, then add 1200 rpm [for a grand total of 8500], and you would have the picture of my power peak. It's gonna be sweet!

 

So how does one justify the cost of a Cosworth Kit if it is only 200whp?

 

With a smile on their face :smile:

If it makes the owners happy, thats what matters.

 

I think when purchasing a "tuner kit" for your car, you're looking for the most HP for the $$$ aren't you? Generally anyway. Unless there are other things like warranty (per Randy Webb's stuff), or JCW/Dinan with the warranty as well. But unless Cosworth offers something over the other tuners, other than HP/$$$, what else is there?

I say this without having a clue the price difference with Cosworth's upgrade kits compared to the others that are avail though, and the comparitive WHP gains =) I'm just saying that when it comes to performance mod kits, isn't the main concern the HP/$$$ factor? Especially when comparing relative part add-ons (intake, exhaust, pulley's, heads, cams, etc.)

 

The kit has a good 25 hp over the Dinan and JCW. In my mind, that is a step up. I was attracted to the fact that the parts were designed with a goal in mind: to improve the driving experience of the car substantially. I can say without a doubt that the car is much better than it ever was. I also, having ridden in a couple quite modified cars, believe it is the best package I have yet encountered. That's why I bought it. :smile:

 

I thought you hadn't dyno'ed yours yet? Isn't the AGS a critical component in the Cosworth package? Did yours make more power without it?

 

cooperss' car was pretty M7'd out: head, cam, ecu, blower, injectors, 16% and 2%, AGS, ECU mod... and got a whoppin' 202whp. (baseline for that car was 151)

to get 25whp more than the JCW means the JCW would only put out 177whp. That is wimpy; you can get that with a 19% pulley.

Ingsoc: how do you intend to get more torque? max hp by raising the rev limit is less telling than the torque curve.

 

Well, like dinan and JCW the cosworth has the name. Other concerns might be reliability, quality, possibility for further tuning, availability (for purchase and install). You can easily pick and match your own parts and save some money maybe. And that path certainly is for some people. But there will always be the people who want package deals because they make things easier, mesh well together, and provide performance. So really, if the cosworth is what makes you happy, then the price really isnt that bad. Its not like its 20k or anything

 

Good point. Looks like Bill's car running with the "Cosworth Plus" package ($5500+ in parts alone) with all the stuff including the removed air filter and fan blowing into the throttle body had these gains:



My car with 15% pulley, Alta intake, and Magnaflow exhaust (well under $1k in parts) gained the same or more torque and power (compared to stock) across nearly the entire usable rev range, except after 5800 or so when the Cosworth package showed its superior breathing ability.



I'm not sure that $4500 difference in the price of parts (the delta undoubtedly gets even larger once labor is taken into account) is a good value for gains that are only measurable at the very upper end of the power band.

 

:smile: jus tryin' to figure out ur next step but good for u for keepin' it to urself.....

 

First off, on the same day that CooperSS's car was dynoed at 202, 2 JCW cars were run. One got 172 or so whp, another was right there too. Please, check out that thread. It seems like either Bill's car makes more whp on the dynos you guys conceive of, or you guys overestimate the output of the JCW. I would like to hear some feedback from you guys on which scenario you believe to be the case. M7 has said that the dyno they use seems ton always give lower numbers. There was an equally modded car on that day with Steve's head, cam, exhaust, 15% pulley, etc. that laid down 191 whp if I remember right [11 less than the Cossie]. Maybe when I get mine on the rollers here the numbers will be higher. Anyways, I believe from my experience that the torque will prove a bit higher than it seemed on the SoCal dyno day. Of note, none of the other cars that dynoed there had torque firgures given. Again, maybe the rollers are a bit conservative. Also, regarding the filter being off of the AGS, they did and posted runs showing only 1 hp difference. Clearly, that's insignificant.

Either way, next break I get [need to make a 5 hour journey], I get my crank pulley installed, I get my software [perhaps it will even be dyno-tuned; it will have a magical redline! :smile:], and I get some data for you guys. Promise, honest to God.

Please everyone, let's work through the implications of the numbers on this day.

 

Didn't we already establish that at this So Cal dyno day, Bill's car had the unique advantages of running with no air filter whatsoever and having a fan blowing directly into the throttle body (conditions that were not present for any of the other cars run that day)? If that's the case, then why are you comparing the results to other cars run that day? Wasn't the stated purpose of this thread to measure the effectiveness of the old style AGS SID compared to the new style AGS SID?

 

I believe the fan was directly on the intercooler, Andy do you know what torque #'s the jcw cars were putting down?

This thread is killing me...lol Its one of the more interesting threads lately...in a Howard stearn sort of way, you keep tuning in to see what will be said next...lol

 

hmmmm..:smile: ..seems like that JCW's kit made NO power!!! like claimed...

both dave & jason's car's W/JCW's intake & 17% made only 5Hp, if that even both had exhaust jud goes to show that JCW's intake is not all that

***oh and whos or what car is that RED Italian car at 298.1.. **WOW...

 

I have test data for seven of the cars that ran.

I compared the times it took to go from 3k-6k rpm. All of the cars were run in 3rd gear. Conditions for all were the same (except for the aforementioned fan and missing air filter on the Cosworth car).

The results in seconds in order from fastest to slowest for each car's best run are (I put the peak hp from the board in parentheses):

1 Bob Nigbor 5.53655 (181.8 peak whp)
2 Mike Leggit 6.06644 (191.6 peak whp)
3 Tamoosh 6.11029 (179.8 peak whp)
4 Cosworth 6.25355 (201.8 peak whp)
5 Dave Chen 6.38000 (169.4 peak whp)
6 Jason Partin 6.64277 (168.5 peak whp)
7 Robert Works 6.83786 (171.7 peak whp)

Interesting how area of power under the curve can be dramatically different that the peak whp number.

 

Liars!!!!

It was my Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi that made 298.1....oops, I thought this was a Dodge Truck forum.

I find it quite amusing that everyone is saying, "Mine is bigger than yours!" and having sword fights over it, too!

All of you are bigger, faster, and better than me.....I admit it,...they won't put my horsepower numbers on my gravestone when I die.

Oh....let's go to the track and run sometime, though.....

....BTW.....I am amused by this whole spectacle...please do not let me interrupt.



Have a great day!

 

More in-gear acceleration times (ranked from fastest to slowest):

3k-4k
1 Bob Nigbor 1.772467527
2 Tamoosh 2.029757192
3 Mike Leggit 2.079485931
4 Dave Chen 2.096348363
5 Cosworth 2.103638261
6 Robert Works 2.223386673
7 Jason Partin 2.22884801


4k-5k
1 Bob Nigbor 1.842807356
2 Mike Leggit 2.000836206
3 Tamoosh 2.067704005
4 Cosworth 2.080506331
5 Dave Chen 2.106076667
6 Jason Partin 2.196385933
7 Robert Works 2.228617325


5k-6k
1 Bob Nigbor 1.921279301
2 Mike Leggit 2.057320782
3 Tamoosh 2.063780155
4 Cosworth 2.069408896
5 Dave Chen 2.177570489
6 Jason Partin 2.232134713
7 Robert Works 2.38586033


6k-7k
1 Bob Nigbor 2.064840188
2 Mike Leggit 2.080236452
3 Cosworth 2.106465594
4 Tamoosh 2.205212907
5 Jason Partin 2.601890374
6 Robert Works 2.607119855
7 Dave Chen 2.759495512