It seems to be generally accepted that from a "bang for the buck" perspective the top three mods one can do to the MCS drivetrain are a smaller supercharger pulley, a free flow air intake and the MTH software.

My question is this: for an MCS daily driver what might the equivalent mods be when it comes to the suspension?

Not looking to start a holy war here, just trying to gather information and informed opinions.

/gary mc

 

Top 2 are probably stiffer rear sway and performance non-runflat tires. Not sure what would be my 3rd pick. Perhaps some lowering springs or some lighter wheels?

 

I agree with 1 & 2, I'd get a MAX performance tire if I didn't need All Seasons or a UHP All Season if I did. (205/50/16, 215/40/17 or maybe a 215/45/17) I sort of agree with #3 except I'd add that the wheels should be wider as well, like 16x7.5 or 17x7.5. Another possibility is camber plates if the car is driven hard in the twisties. As far as lowering springs go I'd sort of agree, with that as well, if rear camber was adjustable.

 

#1 by far...Lighter wheels and tires
#2 Front camber (dont u want your new tires to wear properly?)
#3 Rear sway bar

 

Having done suspension modifications to many of the cars I've owned, the three I'd recommend for the street for most cars (including Minis) are:

1. Tires. The only car I've driven whose stock tires I'd be happy with is a new Dodge Viper. The tires on the C6 Corvette aren't too bad either, but most cars can benefit from better tires, ideally all-seasons or snow for the winter and high performance summer tires for the warmer months. Going from the 175mmm wide 15" all season tires on my MC to some 195/55-15 Toyo Tires made a very nice improvement. Choosing a lightweight wheel and preferably a light weight tire will help too (my Toyos were only a 1/2 pound heavier than stock each)

2. Sway Bars. Adding bigger sway bars is a great way to decrease body roll, make the handling of the car more neutral (most cars are built with a tendancy to understeer from the factory), and all without increasing the harshness of the ride much, if at all.

3. Struts/Shocks. My MC has better stock struts than many cars I've owned, but a set of Konis (or other high performance struts) will help out most cars.

I've changed the springs on several of my cars to higher rate lowering springs or coilovers, and while improving handling, it also increased the ride harshness, which made the car less comfortable for driving on the street. Whether or not springs should be at the top of a person's list should depend on their tolerance for NVH and the condition of the roads in their area.

I've decided I'm going to be autocrossing my MC in H Stock for the next year or two, so my allowable suspension modifications are very limited, but I may end up with a set of Konis and I might play around with a smaller front sway bar (since I can't change the rear)

-Keith

 

in the matter of some time i will be doing the same. im going with a better wheel/tire combo, rear sway, what im looking for is some help how i should go about lowering, and struts. i want a street set up but also with autox in mind. i have looked at the teins, hsport, and koni with lowering springs. i would like some guildence.
sorry to hijack but i figure this would be the best place to post, given i was looking for the same type of info.

 

Depends on what you're thinking about doing...

Lighter tires are great! I think that the "best bang for the buck" is the rear sway bar... That will make the car more neutral through turns. Changing out the springs make a difference too... Not to mention it looks sexy!

I hope this helps. If not, you can do a search to find different product reviews as well as install tips, if you're a DIY-er...

I recommend H-sport. I think that is the best, after months of research. I put on the h-sport springs, but I did the ALTA rear sway bar... I wish I would have went h-sport w/the sway bar. I am actually going to change it out to an H-sport, when I get time!

 

mine's the ultimate street setup. check out my Info page.

 

Thanks everyone for the thoughts.

I'm definitely going to do the rear sway bar in the immediate future. I'm also planning to do performance non runflats. I may even replace my 17" white S-Lites but my wife loves their look so that may be more difficult. Lowering springs are a lesser possibility at this point - I'm concerned about clearing some of bumps I encounter now!

Thanks again folks!

 

Interesting fact, well to me at least While I was doing an advanced driving school, my instructor told me that most cars are designed to understeer. I'm guessing its because most people don't know how to control oversteer.

 

Thats mostly it....and oversteer would tend to scare people more easily, which doesnt help with how they react. :smile:

 

Yep. The first reaction most people have is to snap off the throttle when the car begins an unintentional slide. If the car is set up to over steer it will want to over steer more. If the car is set up to understeer, snapping off the throttle will usually help and allow the fronts to regain grip.

I would do:

1. Wheels and tires, if not, just tires. Anything lighter is better. Diameter is personal preference.

2. Springs. They improve handling and look nice. If you have an 05 the rear camber has some some adjustment to it, can get close enough that you should destroy tires too quickly.

3. Sway bar: Good bang for the buck, but for street use I feel money is better spent on springs first because they have asthetic value too. No one will ever visually see the mod. (if that is important to you)[/size][/font]

 

I am going to say a rear sway bar, grippy tires and more camber..

 

Depends on what you are doing with the car.

#1 is for sure the rear swaybar. Even above runflats. When my car had runflats from Pirelli (waaay back when), I ran 1:22.5 at Second Creek. The rear swaybar allowed me to dip into the 20's. With the stock swaybar and good tires, I can do 1:21 - so there is even more of a difference wiht the swaybar than with tires.

The second upgrade would have to be tires/wheels.

If you are just doing street driving, stop there. No need to go with anything else, the car is balanced and it sticks.

The stock spring rates are linear, and though they could be slightly stiffer in the rear, they are a good set up. Same goes for the stock shocks - goo compression, good rebound.

If you are doing a lot of track days, get a set of front camber plates and set up a bit more than -2.0 camber. If you have an '05 built after January, you already have rear camber adjustment - you don't need it anyway if you aren't lowering the car.

As far as the third part for a street car - driving lessons. That a good alignment will literally gives you seconds on the track.

For alignment on a street car that sees track duty, I use 0 toe in the front and 0 toe in the rear. If you are just tracking the car, go with a hair of toe out in the front, 1/16" total. If you are autocrossing the car, use 1/8" total in the front, and again, neutral in the rear.

So, to break it down:

1. Rear swaybar (DON"T DO THE FRONT - the car ends up continuing to understeer, only with less roll)

2. Tires/wheels

3. Track cars: front camber plates
Street cars: driving lessons

I would highly recommend driving lessons either way. We do them here, and there are usually club schools anywhere you are in the country. For private lessons we charge $150 plus the track charge of $60. That's about what a track day at a club event will cost you too. Money well spent.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

I read in another thread a while back that the '05's had a different/bigger/better rear sway bar. Can anyone confirm this? If this was indeed the case, would it largely negate the benefits of buying a different rear sway?

I'm just wondering since I've got an 05 and wouldn't want to spend the $$ for a part that would have a very small effect on my car

 

Absolutely not true. I've swapped several '05 bars (20 or so at least) and they are identical - I just measured.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

Cool, great to know Now to add a sway bar to my list of things to buy

 

1 - I would agree with most everyone that a big (21-22mm) rear bar is first.

2 - I would say brake pads (Hawk HPS) all around - yes I know this is not suspension technically but I do think it is the next priority.

3 - Tires - shorter, stickier, and a little wider. On lighter wheels if you have slites as stock.

Wes

 

Anyone have any experience with the front sway bar? I saw that H-Sport sells a front/rear set, and was wondering if the front one made much of a difference. Any opinions one way or another?

 

you might have missed it, but randy mentioned above:

This about sums up everything i have heard about it as well :smile: A lot of road racers tend to use them and use other thins such as coilover settings etc to to get rid of understeer. On the opposite side of things....autocrossers try to find smaller bars :smile: So, if you are going the street route, your best bet is to stick with the rear bar only

 

The Car comes with both a med front and a medium rear bar as stock. There is built in understeer (insurance) as the car is nose heavy. You need to increase the rear stiffness proportionally greater than the front to re-balance the handling towards neutral. A bigger rear bar is best, leaving the med front bar on. If you like lean or have zero dollars you could pull the front bar off and leave the med rear bar and have a very leany but probably neutral car. Do not increase the front bar unless you are greatly increasing stiffness in the rear with bars, springs, shocks or something.

Wes

 

For a street car? Unless you're getting brake fade on the stock brakes, don't bother upgrading pads - they won't make a huge difference in braking ability of the car under normal conditions. On the track, sure... you need pads that won't fade under the heat of track braking. But on the street you shouldn't be able to get the stock pads to fade driving safely.

 

The Hawk HPS gives basically no dust at all, so it might be worthwhile if you ahve white wheels as well.

 

It also depends on what "street" means. You could be getting groceries, or you could be running the twisties (especially the dragon). Any kind of aggressive street driving for a prolonged time will show fade. I go on hour+ trips to the twisties and the brakes certainly reach temperature.

 

RIGHT ON the rear sway bar and non run flats dramatically change the car without any compromise.