Checkout what's being proposed for 2006 classing in HS....

http://scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/05-08-fastrack.pdf

Needless to say this should give us some pretty good competition. At least participation should go up.

 

Those Celicas, with their factory authorized "crash bolts," can get ~2.5 negative camber in the front. They may not transition like a MINI but on a course with a lot of sweepers they could be tough to beat.

 

There are actually quite a few cars that could give the MINI a run for the money. The MX6/Probe GT has a great engine and is really well balanced and weighs as little as 2500-2600lbs in "stripper" form.

I do not know much about the Celica GT but from the little research I have done it could be a real contender. The Protege MP3 is also a car that concerns me along with any number of the Honda/Acuras on the list.

To be honest, unless we have a course the consists of a lot of transistions the MINI is going to be at a significant disadvantage. For example, the Probe GT is used to drive did 0-60 in the low 7's all day long. Compare that to the MINI that does 0-60 in the mid 8's and you'll have a lot of fluctuation in various courses.

It will be interesting to see what happens, obviously SCCA's goal is to get the participation numbers up. I'm okay with that and at a local level these changes will really help out the competition in HS. Of course, we all know how freaky people get when it comes to competing nationally and I'm sure any strengths or weaknesses will be exploited to their fullest extent. I just hope we don't end up with an ES situation and have a bunch of 15 year old cars being rebuilt every season to the fullest extent of the rulebook. I think that kills the nature of a "stock" class.

Stuart

 

The Celica ST is probably a faster autocross car than the GT. It's lighter than the GT, and has a nice little motor that makes pretty decent low end torque.

I also think the 99-00 Civic Si should be a screaming HS car. It is limited to 15x6 wheels and has a slow steering ratio, but it has that nice B16A and really close gear ratios.

 

Honestly, I would only be concerned with the Celica ST and the MX-6 4-cylinder, both are faster than their "faster" brothers on an autocross course. The 99-00 Si is good, but not any faster than the other two.

 

I am not concerned -- I haven't seen any of those cars being autocrossed . So even if they are faster or at least compeptitive with the MINI, it doesn't matter - as owners of those cars rarely autocross them. Of course, my experience is very limited - i have been doing autox for about 2 years (10 events per year) mostly with the NJ area BMW, Posche and M-Club. And cars in those clubs are homogeneous.

 

Ya, but it's not "current" owners that are the concern. If one person goes out in one of these cars and starts beating all the HS Minis, suddenly a bunch of autocrossers will be running out and buying up every example of the new-hotness that they can find.

well, that's exaggerated, but you know. "If you reclassify them, they will come."

 

Agreed. Again, I compete in clubs where you rarely see anything other than a high power production car and BMW, Porsche etc...

Solo 2 competitive MINI drivers probably aren't very happy with the news, understandably so. I would just cheat - having 2.5 degrees of negative camber is an unfair advantage. Not only does that make the celica pretty fast, it also helps save on tires - which means celica drivers can probably run Hoosiers for the same cost as MINI drivers run Kumhos... I am considering investing into Toyo RA-1s because of the lack of camber - they are the longest lasting race tire out there - i simply can't afford to have the mini chew up the outside wall on V710s or something.

 

The Celica is going to be really tough on the Mini in HS. We had one in the Midwest Division last season that placed 2nd in GS for the year, he actually beat me on a course with several sweepers. There camber definitely is a big bonus. I'll see if I can dig up and run some #'s how that 94 Celica would have done against the HS #6 nationals trophy finisher for the season series.

 

OK, here it is

#6 HS trophy finisher for 2004 National Championship

#6 - St Louis - 75.953
94 Celica St Louis - 75.792
This course had a good mixture of Slalom/sweepers/transitions both cars ran same heat.

#6 Oklahoma City - 67.350
94 Celica Oklahoma City - 65.655
several sweepers and one slalom, #6 ran 3rd heat, celica ran 1st heat

#6 Salina KS, - 95.340
94 Celica Salina, KS - 96.759 (this was raw clean time since he coned every run) This course was a very fast slalom and transitional course which definitely was not the strength of the Celica. Celica 2nd heat, #6 3rd heat.

So, the bottom line is, if anyone preps one of these Celica's, it will probably have the edge against the Mini just about anywhere that has sweepers. If a course has a ton of slaloms, the Mini will definitely have the edge.

Oh, also, keep in mind, this Celica was NOT prepped at all besides wheels/tires. AND, the Celica was running Avons and in Salina they were not real fresh to say the least.

 

Is the Celica Mark Bishop? I used to run with him back when we lived in Michigan. . . Although he had a Contour SVT back then. He's a very good driver.

 

Yes, it sure is, and yes, he's definitely a good driver. Mark has decided to abandon stock class and run an FM Solo Vee, which he is working on as we speak I'm sure. He'll probably run my Mini at the KC Midwest divisional in STX since he probably won't have his done by then(July 23). Mark said if the Celica goes to HS, his sister now owns it, but, he has the rights to run it whenver he wishes, so, I'd look for him to run a couple of the NT's next season if so.

I'll have to look to see how he compared to HS at the Peru NT last year. That was a tough course for him if I remember right.

 

It looks like he would have won HS by .274 for the 2 day Peru NT. On day 1, he ran .8 faster than all of HS, on day 2 he DNF'd his last run, so, its hard to say what he would have ran. I remember him being very frustrated on run 3 of day 2 since he was a bit back in GS and I think he pushed it a bit to hard and spun the Celi.

Anyway, this is a good data point, it really shows the potential I think. I realize there were only 3 Mini's, but one was Jacobs, who just had a real strong showing at the Toledo Pro with a win.

 

Mark's car was a GT, too, was it not? If the ST is even faster....

Hmmm. maybe I'm motivated almost enough to write my SEB letter, now

-Roger "the laziest autocrosser I know" B.

 

Yes, it was a GT. Its too bad he didn't take it to nats, now, they will probably just stick it in HS because they feel it fits and they have no national championship data. I guess only time will tell.

 

Just so you know.....

Jeff Cashmore and Jim Harn still have the right Celica ST's

Jim does have an S on order

 

I talked to Jim earlier this year, and he said he had a base Cooper (non-S) on order ... Or did he change his mind? Or is he getting a pair of 05 minis?

(the 05 Cooper has a different tranny with slightly revised gear ratios, Jim told me that's why he was buying another HS Mini)

-Roger, who is slower than Jim