I am following up on my previous thread which is here

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...s-or-both.html

but since the problems/current situation is different, I thought it is better to start a new thread. After trying myself, I took it to a mechanic who took the head out and then said the problem lies in the cylinders and it needs a complete rebuilt. He takes 3 months to do the rebuilt and I also got clutch replaced at the same time. It cost me 7000 dollars and the car started misfiring almost the day after he returned. The mechanic has now disappeared although he gave me 1 year parts and labor warranty. It doesn’t mean anything since I can’t find him. So I am on my own now.

scanner always gives misfiring in 3rd cylinder (and then it shows several cylinders). The exhaust was also still smoky after the rebuilt and PCV was a probable cause so I changed the valve cover. To eliminate the potential fuel injection issue I also changed all fuel injectors. Vanos solenoids were changed before the rebuilt and I just checked the exhaust side and it looks clean. I am out of ideas on how to get rid of the misfiring. Note that it misfires all the time, not after getting warm as it did before. It looks like changing the valve cover has eliminated the smoke but misfiring in cylinder 3 is persistent.

swapping coils, plugs, etc doesn’t change anything. 3 always misfires.

I did compression test and also leak down test, and they both were good and that is why I am very confused.

This car has consumed my life. I have put more than $16000 on a 2011 car and haven’t driven much at all and is seriously affecting my well being (apart from the really bad feeling of a mechanic cheating by taking 7000 and disappearing. All I have his phone number and he never returns the calls. He left his original location so I can’t find him).

Any ideas would be of great help. I don’t feel like taking it to mechanics who would charge me a lot to do the same things I have been doing. (dod take it to a dealer once, they took a few hundred dollars and did almost nothing)

Thanks for reading.

 

I have an update on this issue. When I remove the camshaft sensor (exhaust) it stops misfiring. I have seen similar issue discussed before but still don’t understand it. Someone also said it indicates a loose valve seal issue. But if I connect the camshaft sensors (both) while the car is still running and then drive the car, it runs fine…. Until o stop and start again. Then it runs like crap and again misfire mainly in cylinder three. VERY similar to what is described in this thread but I don’t see the issue was resolved for this one either.


https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ithout-it.html


any ideas?

 

What do fuel trims show?

 

Have you had your intake or exhaust Camshaft Sprocket replaced? Are you sure you didn't mix them up when did you overhaul your engine?

 

?

 

THanks SergeiSS. I did not rebuilt the engine, the mechanic did so I don't know if he messed up the sprockets. Could you explain how can this be checked? I can remove the valve cover. Can I inspect if I remove the valve cover? Can you explain how or point me to the right direction?

About fuel trims, I am figuring out how to check. I have Foxwell NT510 Elite scanner and for whatever reason it doesn't have all the functions I see other people on Youtube using on their minis. (I know there was an engine change in 2011. I have another scanner from Bavarian Tecnic and it had the same issue, many of the functions didn't work but they would work on older minis)

Also, I tried changing the camshaft sensor and it didn't help. I also tested the sensor based on a procedure by Pelican Parts. It says the third (signal) wire should go between 0 and 12 when you slightly lift up the sensor. I think the proper way is to rotate the engine but I didn't do that yet. I don't see the change in voltage. I am not sure if I didn't pierce the connector enough or it is indeed an issue. Perhaps the wiring harness or ECU has issues?

One more thing I tried based on someone's advice is to try to reset the computer. I disconnected the battery for more than 30 minutes. No effect of that either. Same behavior. Runs rough and misfires mostly on 3rd and when I remove the camshaft sensor connector it runs better and if I reconnect while running I can go for a smooth drive, until I stop and restart the engine.

 

I see on this page how the intake and exhaust camshaft sprockets look like.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...eplacement.htm

They do look quite different to me on the photo shown and it would be really bad if the mechanic managed to swap them.

I took a photo of the engine when I changed the valve cover (after the rebuilt ). Unfortunately the angle is not favorable to see the sprockets properly. Are you able to tell if they look as expected?

 

Also, if the sprockets were indeed swapped, wouldn't it be bad enough to run rough all the time? Why would it get better when the cam shaft sensor is removed?

 

The actuating units of the intake side and the exhaust side are different.

The intake camshaft is marked VANOS and IN.

The exhaust side actuator is designated VANOS and EX.

 

Additionally, check if the bolts, which I highlighted in red, are well tightened!

 

I understand why you want those tight, but are they known to loosen up?

 

I know one case when the guys during the bulkhead of the engine tightened one of the bolts badly and because of this they had misfires in one of the cylinders.

 

The camshaft sensor works in tandem with the crankshaft sensor. Thanks to their readings, the engine control unit knows when and in which cylinder the compression stroke will occur in order to send a signal to the correct fuel injection nozzle. What happens when the camshaft sensor goes off? The electronic engine control unit switches from distributed fuel injection to synchronous. What does it mean? This means that the ECU now only receives data from the crankshaft sensor. Every half-turn of the crankshaft, at a certain moment, the electronic engine control unit gives a command to fire a pair of nozzles that inject fuel through them into two engine cylinders at once. The next half-turn is similar, the second pair of nozzles fires. Does this explain why your engine starts to run better after the camshaft sensor is disconnected?
PS: It's my personal opinion. )

 

It makes some sense, although considering that it runs fine with the camshaft sensor disconnected and it misfires only or mainly in 3, and also since other mechanical issues have taken care of, I have a feeling this problem is related to the ECU or wiring. If the sprockets were wrongly installed, shouldn't it run poorly even when the camshaft sensor is disconnected? Does anyone have a wiring diagram showing the connections from the pins connecting to the ECU to the injector, coils, etc?

 

Hello all, I am coming back to this thread after some time. Based on the symptoms and also based on the advice of a local mechanic, we thought that the problem was not mechanical but ECU related, so I decided to use a ECU programming service (ECU Mavericks) and I sent the DME/ECU to them and they sent me a replacement. The problem was not solved and the behavior is exactly the same. That is, it runs OK when the camshaft sensor is DISconnected (but not perfect and also not efficiently) and runs terrible (misfire in 3) if it is connected. However, I have just discovered a conditon when the car runs perfectly. I am not sure if this behavior is due to the ECU replacement and perhaps I just discovered this now after trying a lot of things.

* If I start the engine with the exhaust camshaft sensor connected, it runs pretty bad. Live information on the Foxwell reader shows misfiring in 3
* If I remove the exhaust camshaft sensor it starts to run OK as I explained earlier.
* Now this is how I can temporarily fix the problem: If I remove the camshaft sensor, then SHUT DOWN THE ENGINE, reconnect the camshaft sensor, then the next time the car runs perfectly....TIll the next time when the car is stopped.

Can anyone explain this behavior? I am going nuts with this mini.

I also noticed that if I disconnect the camshaft sensor and reconnect it while the engine is running, it will run the same as when it is disconnected. But if I do this and then shut off the engine, the next time it will misfire again. The only way to make the car run smoothly is to start it (which will make it misfire), remove the camshaft sensor (exhaust), shut off the engine, reconnect the camshaft sensor and then restart the engine.

The fact that there is a way to make this run smoothly makes me believe that the problem is still ECU related, and not mechanical.

Also, is there any MINI enthusiast here in the SF Bay Area who might be able to help? Thanks in advance!

 

May I know the part number of the camshaft sensor you have installed?

 

Yes, the number on the box is 0 232 103 064. It is a Bosch part. I replaced both camshaft sensors. Also I have the old camshaft sensors and the number is the same. The only difference is that the old one had a black plastic tip and the new one has a white plastic tip. I was not sure if this was a protective tip. It doesn’t come out so I am hoping it is part of the sensor!

 

Ok, send me your VIN pls and I'll check if it matches.

 

Found this thread (“translucent cap begging to be removed”….just my thoughts).

Anyway, not sure if this is relevant to my problem, I am still trying to understand this thread.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...r-problem.html

 

I tested the camshaft sensor using this tutorial today

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...or_Testing.htm

so when the multimeter’s black lead is connected to the battery ground, wire no 1 should be at 5 V, 2 (middle) should be at ground and third should be at 12 or 0. And 3 should fluctuate between 0 and 12 if you bring a tool close to it and pull away. In my case, wire 3 is always close to zero. I also tried to see if it changes between 0 and 12 when the engine is running but I do not see any change. May be the engine runs too fast and this is not a good way to measure but moving the tool close and away or just pulling out the sensor in and out also doesn’t make any changes. So basically I don’t see the Hall effect. I checked both new and old sensors and it is unlikely both are bad. Can it be the wire? Also the intake side camshaft also doesn’t show any change.

 

I just tested continuity based on this diagram showing the connections between the exhaust ca,shaft sensor and the ECU.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...on-sensor.html

I see continuity between 1 (blue) and 38. There is also continuity between 3 (white) and 7. But there is no continuity between 2 (yellow) and 15. I thought I found the problem. But when I checked the spare wire harness I have, it has the exact same condition. So is the wiring diagram wrong or is it a coincidence that both wiring harnesses have the sme problem? 2 (yellow) should be ground isn’t it?

 

I also just bought this wiring diagram pdf book and I am getting even more confused. The exhaust camshaft sensor show continuity as I described in the earlier reply, but the intake camshaft sensor connections don't match at all!! Actually when I put a wire in the hole corresponding to 22 it doesn't catch anything, like it were empty. And this is in both wiring harnesses. Can someone provide a wiring diagram (connection from camshaft sensors to the pins in the DME)? I am attaching the image of the wiring diagram I used.

 

Your open circuit between pin 2 of the sensor and pin 15 of the ECU might be because you're measuring the same connector as the other two connections. As mentioned in the other thread, this sensor is wired to two different ECU connectors, X60211 (Pins 38 and 7) and X60212 (Pin 15). The harness should be labeled near the connectors.

 

Thanks for pointing this out! But I am still confused. Which connector is X60212? On the DME there are two connectors, two large and one small. But the wiring harness which contains the camshaft sensors end with only two main connectors, the large one, which has numbers (so I am able to check continuity with pins 7 and 38) and the small one, which doesnt have numbers but numbered rows and lettered columns. The large connector that has numbers is NOT the part of this harness.

 

OK, I was able to google the pin numbers (not sure why they did not put numbers like those in X60211 in the small connector and used letters and numbers). I am attaching for other people here. SoI have confirmed that all connections (from both camshaft sensors to the DME connectors) are good. I was also able to see the hall effect on the sensor, but the behavior is completely different than that described in Pelican's website. In my car, the yellow wire (middle wire, 2) goes from 5 V to 0 V when the sensor is moved back and forth. Is this normal?

I am still able to reproduce the behavior in which the car runs smoothly if 1) start and let it misfire, 2) disconnect the exhaust camshaft sensor) 3) shut down the engine 4) reconnect the camshaft sensor and 5) start the car

Perhaps it is still going to the default fuel injection mode (not using the variable timing) even after the camshaft sensor is connected?

I feel like giving up on this car.