Kumho USA has this posting:
(from http://www.kumhousa.com/News/News2004.asp#nov1d)

While the Hoosier S04 is a fine tire, it tends to wear out on the shoulder prematurely on the camber challenged (stock) MCS. The Kumho V710 in a size for the MINI on 16" wheels is good news based on reports that it has better wear characteristics in this regard.

I think the 225/50R16 will fit under a stock MCS without rubbing, particularly if the offset is adjusted within the allowable limits (1/4"). However, I'm wondering if the 215/40R16 might be a more competitive tire for GS autocross. Not as wide a contact patch, but shorter sidewalls means more torque to the pavement, right?

Thoughts?

-->Aaron

 

If you have something to run during the early season I would wait for the 215. My guess is the 225/50/16 is going to be huge, and may not fit. The 225/50/16 Victoracer rubs a little in the rear and the 710 will probably be wider.

 

Looks like the new sizes of Kumho V710s are up on TireRack.com now:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp?make=Kumho&model=ECSTA+V710

 

Hmm. They're on backorder.

But, who's going to prove they're faster than the Hoosiers...I'll wait...

For now, I'm going to use 1st days Nationals last year to say that they're not any different (Ken Sorensen was on Hoosiers, Rob Carpetener was on Kumho V710s). I'm hoping somebody proves me wrong.

Ken Sorensen 53.440 Hoosiers
Robert Capenter 53.506 Kumhos
Rob Foley 53.556 Hoosiers
Ian Baker 53.585 Hoosiers
Alan McCrispin 53.672 Hoosiers
Mike Lillejord 53.883 Kumhos

This was the dry day, and generally, Rob Carpenter can kill everybody, so this is pretty good data, although only one day.
Plus, you can see the Hoosier vs. Kumho on the same smaller car (Celica GT). The Kumho was much faster on big cars, but this is definitely suspect.

Now the real question is how much better will a Kumho do on a camber challenged car like the MINI? Will it be a big help, or will it do worse (not sure if that's possible...)?

Brian

 

I'm going to try the KUMHO's based on the second day. Robert Carpenter not only made up that 1/10 from the first day, he went on to cover the entire field by 2.5 seconds. Robert is very good, but I don't think it could have been done on sub-par tires. I remember the track being dry for third run in G stock. (North course) I'm going to run the V710 215/40/16's. I just hope they have them ready for delivery in time. It will be interesting to see who does what in G Stock this year. Roberts gone to C STOCK!:smile:

 

Ahh, if you were there, you'd remember that not only was the track drying, but Robert was also NOT on V710's, he was nice and toasty V700's.

This is why I said I'd base it on the first day, the only time you truly saw V710's vs. Hoosiers. The second day had Ian and I on Toyo RA-1 full treads, Alan McCrispin and Mark Allen on Hoosier Wet Radials and then Hoosier A's AND Wet Radials simultaneously. Many were on Street tires, and many were on slicks. Although I'm sure of Robert Carpenter's ability, you can't use day two as a basis for ANYthing.

Brian

 

Nice and toasty? Hardly! I was supposed to be the "tire-warmer", but it didn't work that way on the 2nd day.....especially when you consider that Robert had it won after his 2nd run (still pretty wet).

Brian, I think your data needs a little interpretation. The Hoosier-shod Celicas were running the 225/45-15 (Section width 9.6", tread width 8.8"), vs Carpenter on the 205/50-15 V710 (SW 8.6", TW 8.1"). So, on the dry day, you have the significantly-narrower 710 in a "dead heat" with the A3S04.

Now, let's look at the stats for this year:
Hoosier 205/45-16 A3S04.....SW 8.6", TW 8.1"
Kumho 215/40-16 V710........SW 8.6", TW 8.5"

Considering that last year the narrower K-tire was competitive, this should bode well for running the K-tire this year with almost-identical dimensions.

I still think the "sleeper" tire is going to be the Avon. They've supposedly tweaked the compound, and the new 225/40-16 is an application that was made specifically for the Mini.

Jim Z

 

Do you know when this size is supposed to be available? Interpolating the price on tirerack, it looks like it'll be slightly more money than the V710, but probably cheaper than the Hoosier.

I'll probably just get the 710s anyhow, unless it takes Kumho until July or something to ship them.

 

I agree that the pricing will be closing to the K-tire than the H-tire. The Tire Rack people are guessing that the new Avon will arrive in "early summer".

I think we'll see the 710 before the Atlanta Nat'l Tour.:smile:

 

Very good points Jim, I appreciate your input.

However, if our RA-1's were warm, you can't deny your V700's weren't . The mistake *I* made was pulling those warm RA-1's off just before my last run to put COLD Hoosiers on. For some reason, it didn't dawn on me pulling off warm tires and putting cold ones on. Of course, did you happen to see me going up to the start line?

The Avon would sound appealing except for the fact that Kumho's contingency is up to where it always should have been, and I can't imagine the Avon will be worth it. We'll see. I've got to burn of these left over Hoosiers first though.

BTW, are you starting to get the impression I WILL be in an '05 MINI? Well, it's still not 100%, but it's looking good.
The ironic part is that either way I'll be looking at the same size tires...

Brian

 

It's gonna rain again. Maybe at the Nationals.
Based on day two, I'd run the KUMHO's under same conditions.

 

Brian,

You're right, I didn't consider the contingency aspect for Kuhmo.

It doesn't surprise me at all that you're looking at an '05. After all the work you put into developing the Mini, and the success you've had, it'd be tough to walk away from a legitimate shot at the top at Nats, especially if they leave it in G/S.

Jim

 

What will you use for shocks?

 

Shocks, nah, I'm gonna go au natural...
I sold my Koni singles, pop's got a set of DA's I can use, he's got new coilovers coming.

Jim, I knew you knew, but last we spoke it was far from decided.

Brian

 

So, with the shorter gearing, I'm wondering if the V710's in a 225/50/16 will be a close 2nd choice on SOME courses? Obviously not on the Prosolo's with lower speeds but, what about the 60+ MPH Courses?

Any thoughts?

On a fast course, I'm thinking it might be OK, I know I ran WAY out of gear at the El Paso National and I ran out of gear at the San Diego Tour.

Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

 

I still think that Tour was very unusual in speed. I've never seen a Solo II Nationals that would warrant a shift to 3rd in a car like a MINI, especially if the MINI can still do 60mph in 2nd. That said, I haven't been around as long as some, but in the last 5 years, it hasn't happened.
The Washington D.C. Tour was very fast and I don't remember getting to rev limiter in the '02.
If the Cooper S is shorter than I think, then that may be a good possibility to run that tire.
Actually, today on stock tires, I'll see exactly what the '05 Cooper S does at rev limiter in 2nd gear. You then take that number and lower it if you're going to a smaller diameter of course.
I can tell you that I tried fitting the 225/50R16 Hoosier in '02 and it didn't fit, rubbed the front struts with a 45mm offset. I know others have fit other brands though, with minor rubbing.

Brian

 

I've heard that the Kumho 225/50/16 would rub. Also, a set of 225/50's wieghts 20 lbs. more than the 215/40's. With my 215's I was running around 61-62 miles per hour and didn't hit the rev limiter, although I wasn't far from it. My thoughts are that you would be giving up accelleration and turn-in for a little more top end that would only be needed occassionaly. $0.02
Curt

 

I drove up to the rev limiter today in 2nd, the digital speedo on the tach read 65mph. After seeing a radar sign in my neighborhood, it appears that the guage is about 1-2 mph fast. So, on stock tires, the car is doing around 63.5mph in 2nd at the rev limiter.
However, it was brought to my attention later tonight, at a MINI night at MINI of Towson, that this car may have a higher rev limiter than previous years. I didn't notice while driving (and forgot to check on the way home). That would make sense, seeing as how I remember the '02 doing about 64mph in 2nd at rev limiter. If this one is geared lower, but goes a few hundred higher at limiter, the difference would make sense.
Seems to me that we haven't lost much range there. The Kumho is a lower diameter than the 205 Hoosier, so it sounds like we're still above the 60mph mark.

Anyone else have some raw data?

Brian