After my attempt at getting an Oxford last year and not going through due to dealer issues and other car related changes, I'm in the market to order a 2023 MINI 2 Door Hardtop. Since this will serve as my daily driver as well as "fun car" for most of the year, I've decided I'm willing to spend the extra to get at least an S over the base (especially with the Oxford edition no longer around).

I'm looking for opinions on an S versus a JCW as a daily driver:
1) Is the JCW suspension too stiff for a daily? Some research I've done suggests it's not too bad. For comparison, I think the worst riding new vehicle I've had was a Fiesta ST (some of that down to the horrible seats), but I would definitely need it to be better than that
2) Is the power increase noticeable for general driving?
3) Is the handling substantially better than the S?
4) This is even more subjective, but is the cost difference "worth it?" Using the configuration tool, my spec would be about $5000 more for the JCW over the S.

Either car would be specced with the manual transmission.
If I ordered an S it would be signature trim in BRG, black roof/mirrors, 17" silver tentacle spokes, anthracite headliner, moonroof delete and premium package
If I ordered the JCW, it would also be the signature trim in Rebel Green, black roof/mirrors, moonroof delete and premium package

I will note I was initially concerned with 2 other things on the JCW:
1) Rebel Green
2) Seat Bolstering

I found a used 2017 locally I was able to take a look at and sit in (didn't opt to drive it since it was an automatic) and found I do like the Rebel green (maybe not as much as BRG) and that the seat bolstering is not excessive and my wife and I both liked them.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. I'm not in a major rush to order, but want to try my best to secure a 2023, so I probably only have a couple of months to make a decision (I have a lease currently through Oct 2023, so the less overlap the better unless I find a reasonable way to get out of that early)

Thanks.

 

Previous daily was a 2016 S, new daily is a 2022 JCW.

Roads are pretty terrible here in Toronto and with DDC suspension on the JCW, I have no complaints even with the 18 inch wheels. Feels almost cushy compared to my 911 on Bilstein PSS-10 coilovers!

The difference in power, braking and handling is quite obvious between the two. For me it was a good choice to go with a JCW.

 

@pongobaz I appreciate the reply, thank you. DDC is not listed as an option in the 2023 JCW configuration tool, but I've found that to be unreliable anyway (though it has improved somewhat from when it first was launched), so I will have to see if it's an option for the dealer to apply.

I'm a little envious of the 911, I regret not going for a 996 before the big upswing in prices started.

 

I previously had '16 F56 S with DDC and loved it but always wanted a little bit more power and a tad better brakes. Then after an idiot at the car wash slammed in the back of my Mini full throttle and totaled it (with me in it) I got the '19 JCW and let me tell you - it's everything I ever wanted in a Mini! Awesome ride, stable through turns, brakes are freaking better than in my old B8 Audi S4, seats are supportive and yet comfortable (I have those red and grey dynamica mica or something), and it's manual (which in itself is becoming rarity). It can get a bit uncomfortable on bad roads but after I switched to smaller 17 inch wheels and non-RF tires it's much more tolerable. The only option I wish my JCW had is the DDC so I could sometimes select the comfort mode when on really bad roads. Although I will say this, one of the DDC shocks blew and started leaking oil on my '16 S and dealership told me it was not covered by warranty so I had to pay $1350 to replace one freaking shock!

To try and answer your questions then:
1. It is a tad firmer than the S but you'll notice it only on bad roads. On smooth asphalt it's just perfect.
2. For general driving it's somewhat noticeable but as soon as you want to do some spirited driving it is very noticeable.
3. Not substantially but definitely noticeable better/firmer (which is better only if driving spiritedly through twisties - I advise you to find a JCW and test drive it before committing).
4. That is really subjective, it's a bunch of upgrades that when all put together I believe, at least for myself, that it's worth it.

I wish you were located closer to me, I'd let you drive mine - but you should be able to find a dealer that has a JCW for you to test drive - that might be the best way to determine if the JCW is what you want/need.

 

I'm driving 15 S as my daily. Its quite nice fun car for a daily driving.
I picked S over JCW for fuel efficiency and cost for main reason.
Here is my feedback on S as daily.
1. Stock S sport suspension was kinda harsh (in NYC nasty street) so I think that dynamic damper control is must. I switched to KW Street comfort and it costed me a lot.
2. Overall, I had no issue with power but some time I feel some weight and hoped I had a bit more power. BM3 tune really solved the problem. so it's just $600 investment fixed the issue and I can always switch back to stock for dealer visit.
3. Stock sport seat was holding me comfortably + tightly and had no complain what so ever.
4. Fuel efficiency is great.
5. Lacking some noise department so I added Gruppe M intake and JCW exhaust and now it sounds great.

After owning X5M and M5, I learned that what I enjoy is 'fast' feel (noise, handling, etc of something I can experience), not necessarily actual 'fast' speed in daily driving (X5M, M5 were super fast but I didn't feel any so had to drive 100+ mph to feel something).
So now I have My Mini Cooper S with BM3 tune and 911 GTS and they're my perfect combo.

So if you have a fun sport car for weekend, I think S should be plenty enough.
if your weekender is straight luxury car (E class, 5 series, etc. of fast but more lux than sporty), JCW would serve you well.

Last thing, I think Rebel green on JCW is awesome, not too big on BRG on S. I rather go with their moonwalk gray for S but that's my personal feeling. =)

 

I can’t add comment on the S vs JCW, I can say I went S over JCW as for me the cost wasn’t going to be worth the higher trim level (but of course that is 100% subjective).
Make sure you see a current BRG car in person, I had ordered my 2023 S as BRG because online and at the dealer it still shows it as a deep green, it is not! Its a fairly light green and I personally do NOT like it, thankfully I was able to switch my order over to Moonwalk.

 

Thanks, I appreciate that and I agree. I have seen the current BRG in person and it's much brighter than in the past. I personally still like it though.

Out of curiousity, any proposed timeline on your order? My dealer said they appear to be about 4-6 months out at this point but everything can change.

 

I posted in another thread, but my dealer told me yesterday that Classic trims have at least been paused if not discontinued. I was originally planning on the signature trim no matter if S or JCW, but then was reviewing and thought I might be able to get into a JCW without as much added cost (while sacrificing a few other nice-to-haves), but seems that's not going to be possible now.

Part of me wants to say forget the ordering business and go for one of the 2022 JCW Anniversary editions that are available around the country, but not sure I really want to spend over $40k before taxes and fees.

 

I placed my order at the end of January knowing that the earliest it could possibly be build was early March. Well as of today I still don’t even have a production or order number to register for tracking, the dealer says it hasn’t been allocated for build yet. They have no idea, the dealer also told me up to that point a week ago the factory wasn’t accepting anymore manual orders but would still build the manual cars that had already been ordered. Good luck, it sucks right now.

 

@Helltime Did they give you any other details why they would not be accepting more manual orders? Is that a temporary thing based on supply chain issues? I know they don't have components for heated steering wheels, alarm systems or universal garage door openers. Those I could live without (though I think the minimal credit they give you towards it is not right), but no manual would be a deal breaker.

 

I'd spec an "S" with the JCW tune (if it is still available as an option. My 2015 S w/ the JCW tune and exhaust actually felt snappier around town than the real 2019 JCW I test drove before I order new 2019 S w/ the tune. Add a DDC and you can set it to soften the suspension while keeping the peppier engine settings. I didn't see the JCW tune as an option on the configuator, but check with your dealer. It was around $1600 when I ordered my car

 

They told me it was because of the difference in wiring harnesses, they had to find another source due to the current situation in Ukraine. So I took from that maybe they still had some for manuals and only used a new source for the higher volume autos (that last part is just my speculation, I could be waaaaay off, but that was my guess).

 

Quick suggestion to consider… My 2 door S, I bought the dealer installed factory JCW upgrade. Full Mini warranty. Includes a nice power tune, BT exhaust (bypass second stage mufflers for higher bit more power and noise. Plus better MPG open when in economy mode). You get to keep the original exhaust for potential future. The upgrade comes with multiple JCW badging inside and out. Plus a certificate.

This way you can get the DCC shocks (they are big difference smoothing things out everyday, yet stiffen up nice for sporty driving). The dealers will run these upgrades on sale. My installed price was $2500. Saves a few bucks over full JCW. The S motor is more efficient in daily driving. The S brakes are excellent unless you are a hard track day person.

wanted to let you know there is a third option. I would recommend this upgrade, or order a JCW over the S. Of you desire the extra go power, will be worth it to you.

 

Dealer installed (which I did on my 2015) and my dealer price matched another dealership @ $1900 is still expensive. For my 2019 MCS, the JCW tune kit was available as a port installed option (like the hood stripes and mirror covers) for around $1600. I'd check and see if it is still available at the port. It can save you almost $1K..

 

that’s seriously good deal. I paid $2450 at the dealership here in Southern California back in 2018.

 

Back in 205 there were some dealerships that advertised parts online. I can't recall whether it was a Mini dealer out of Mass or another one that had the tuner listed way below what my dealer was charging. Fortunately, the service manager at my dealership said they would price match anything I could find online. I showed him and they matched the price. Yes great deal at the time. 2019 and BMW/MINI offered the same kit for $1600 as a port installed option.

 

actually I have a friend who has a brand new JCW Pro exhaust for sale in San Francisco area. If anyone interested, please pm me if you're serious..

 

They're both good options, but it depends on what you want to do with the car. An S with the JCW tuning kit will be close in power, but will not have the larger brakes, added cooling capacity and a number of underlying upgrades. If you are thinking about adding the JCW brake kit, you might as well go for the JCW. I've had mine since 2017 and still love it. I've driven it cross country for MTTS 2018 (8.800 total miles logged) and as a daily driver. I do have DDC, but did not find the standard suspension to be overly harsh on 17" wheels.

Another option to consider is the Cooper ... it's plenty quick and and a fully optioned car will still be less than either of the options you are looking at. Also, it has the added benefit of less weight over the front wheels so it is arguably the best balance of the group. Just a thought.

 

Had 2013 MC R56, too slow for me, then a 2015 MC F56 JCW, Automatic, OEM JCW Pro Valved Exhaust, Loaded w/18” Summer Setup & 17” Winter Setup both running non run-flats and now I found my true love 2021 MC F56 JCW, 6spd, OEM CoilOver Optional Suspension Setup, NM Larger Front & Rear Stabilizer Bars, 18” Summer Setup & 17” Winter Set, OEM JCW Pro Valved Exhaust, NM Sport ECU and all I can say that my daily commute into NYC/Brooklyn is amazing!! My only complaint is broken windshields and crappy potholes! Thank God my vehicles are protected with XPel Ultimate! Highly Recommend It!!! Enjoy your daily drive!! Jose

 

I'd suggest you sharpen a pencil and crunch some numbers. Then determine why you are buying the car. Is it to commute and drive on the streets or are you intending to track the car or run AutoX with it too? If you want to compete and enjoy pushing the car to it's limits then you should get the JCW (as the extra money you pay for the race inspired goodies is worth the money compared to adding them later). I can tell you from first hand experience that a MCS with the JCW tune and a set of lighter wheels and tires will feel faster on the street than a JCW running the same route. A short story:

When I was ready to trade my 2015 JCW tuned MCS (with Enkei RPF1's), the Mini Salesman came with me when I test drove a 2019 JCW. We ran a specific route from the dealership that included some side roads with some curves, and highway. The JCW was an automatic (as was my 2015). I drove a bit like a hooigan and found myself not impressed with what I was experiencing in the new JCW compared to my 2015 (I knew how my car would handle and respond driving the way I was driving). During that test drive the salesman was commenting about how quick the JCW was and what a great handling car it was. When we got back to the dealership, I asked the salesman if he wanted to take a ride in my 2015. He agreed. I ran the same route as the JCW and drove my car the same way as I did the JCW. During that test drive the salesman commented than my can seemed quicker the JCW. He asked what all I had done to it. I said I put lighter wheels and tires on the car and had the JCW tune and exhaust added. He said, my car was quicker doing the same route as the JCW. One reason for this is max TQ on my car kicks in really low in the RPM range while the JCW kicks in near the top of the RPM range. So around town where you are scooting from stop light to stop light or running streets where the speed limit if 45 MPH, my tuned Mini was much more responsive. Not saying on a track, and racing, the the JCW wouldn't be better as the brakes and suspension would certainly out perform mine. But around town, I take my tuned MCS over the JCW every time (and save a bunch of money too). Certainly if you want to use the gearbox to keep the RPM's near the limit with the JCW, it may very well seem even faster than mine, but I kinda like the responsiveness of mine without having to row through gears to the same effect. Additionally, if you are charging around near the top of the RPM range, you could draw the attention of LE that look for speeders, and noise draws attention. etc.

Hope this helps. Even now, based on how I drive today, I'd probably opt for the 3 cyl MINI in the Iconic dress. I did test drive a 3 cyl and found it to be a fun a capable car. Not a barn burner, but peppy and fun. So there ya go!

 

@rtowell @USA-RET I had an enjoyable 45 minute test drive of a 2021 manual Cooper last year sans-salesperson before I placed my Oxford Cooper order. I was impressed enough to place the order and at this point in time I wish I'd kept the order despite the lack of information I was receiving and the car accident I had last summer.

The value proposition was really great with the Oxford edition, I could get the color combination I wanted, the anthracite headliner, etc, etc and still come out cheaper than the Classic trim. Now I would have to get the signature trim to get what I wanted, and while it's not an insignificant amount of money, I'd probably rather pay the extra to get the S with a bit more power.

 

Howdy, I'm also looking to order a 2023 S Hardtop (Iconic, 6 speed) and have started to chat with dealers. My current Mini is a 2015 S Hardtop, 6 speed with a sport package, etc, but no mods.
My local dealer let me take a long test drive of both F56 S and JCW hardtops, back to back a couple years ago. Per your queries, here's what I thought.
-- The JCW suspension improves handling somewhat but that gain is more than offset by its harshness. It is uncomfortably tight for daily use (unless you stick only to smooth, flat roads). The more uneven the road, the worse, and sometimes the more unsettled, it got.
-- The JCW initially had modestly better acceleration but its marginal edge melted away quickly (well before 60).
-- The cost difference is not worth it.
-- The S strikes me as better balanced for daily driving, and as having very similar performance. It is my clear preference.
I feel compelled to add that from time to time I have seriously considered a JCW, and respect the decision to get one. They are lovely, distinctive cars.

 

Across a few threads (including this one) I have seen people mention getting the S with the JCW tuning kit. Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t believe that is offered anymore?

 

Sadly I think that is the case (at least as an order item when spec'ing a new car). I would confirm with your dealer to be sure and see if it can be added as a dealer installed option. When I ordered my 2019, I thought it was a part of the configuator when I was building my car (could be wrong as I slept since then, ha!). I know that often-times some items can be added by the dealer when when ordering your car that were not shown as option on-line or anywhere else. That could be the case with the JCW tuning kit. A shame if they dropped it as it really transforms the MCS into a little fire-breather with full factory warranty coverage.

 

I believe that's correct. But then, there's the Dinan + ECU tune now where they will cover the factory warranty if anything was to happen and shows pretty big gains if anyone wanted to go that route.

https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...B46-B48-M-S1-W