So today I headed down to ross-tech as Andy@ross-tech and I swapped cars for a few days and since there is so much talk about the 02-04 vs. the 05's I figured I'd post my impressions of the 2 for everyone.

The small changes that have been made to the inside are all personal preference. The new steering wheel is a lot nicer in my opinion but the multi function controls seem to be laid out a little more logically on the older 2 spoke wheel. I like the little extra storage spaces and extra LED's as it really brightens up the interior while also making it more livable on the inside. Those are the biggest changes I noticed, the clock is a bit harder to read in the 05 since it's in the speedo but its better integrated in my opinion. Andy's car is fully loaded whereas mine isn't so there are a few differences there as well. Now onto the performance part.

The first thing I noticed was that even though Andy's car has a GIAC chip, Helix 15% reduction pulley, HAI, and one ball my bone stock 05 felt much better off the line. I'd say up until about 4k-4500 RPM's the 05 actually pulls harder then the modded car does. But that all goes out the window once you cross the torque peak. By that time the car with the go fast bits is screaming towards the redline whereas my 05 sort of plateau's. Acceleration wise in general though the cars are a lot similar then I thought they'd be. It's amazing what lowering the gear rations can do for a car. Personally I think the 02-04's are geared to tall given their hp but that's just my opinion. The 05 is much punchier off the line and is just geared better for driving in my opinion. With that said I really can't wait to get the pulley/chip for my 05 as I think it'll be an absolute monster given the cars shorter gearing. And to think I said I wasn't going to mod it The power in the upper RPM spectrum of Andy's car is addicting though! The one ball is a great budget exhaust and I'll be having one done for my car soon. The 05 exhaust is almost as loud as the one ball but it pops and burbles a lot more on deceleration. Should sound perfect with the one-ball mod done to it.

Needless to say those are my thoughts on the differences. In the end you can't go wrong with a mini no matter what year you get!
Mike

 

Since I have never driven anything besides my 05 I wonder what it is that I have that is so cool... hmm need to find someone who will let me drive their MINI

 

I think motor trend got an 05 mcs to go 0 to 60 in something like 6.4 seconds wich is almost as quick as an 02 - 04 jcw. I wonder what the 0 to 60 time is on an 05 jcw. How are the gear ratios different between the earlier mcs and the 05? Is top speed the same on the 05? I'm curious.
:smile:

 

If the gearing is what is making the difference the 02-04 should be faster top end(when speed regulating programing is removed from the ECU of course ). The 05 will get there a bit quicker now than the 02-04.

 

Theres more

 

The 05 will theoretically get to its top speed faster but the 02-04 will have a higher top speed because of the taller ratios. Not that it matters as the mini is an absolute brick anyway!
Mike

 

Call me stubborn - I've driven '05's a few times now, and everytime I get back in MM2 I feel it has "real" gear ratios. Then again I absolutly cant STAND having a short 1st gear (shivvers at the thought of being stuck with a Chrysler Crossfire manual). The tall 1st gear is one of the reasons I bought the MINI in the first place.

 

For some other thread a while back, I got the impression there isn't any top speed "limiter," aside from the brick-like aerodynamics of the vehicle. Theoretically, redline for an 05 in 6th gear should be about 156 mph. For an 02-04, redline in 6th should be about 163. So it's not the redline rev limiter that's setting the top end. I think the top speed is just occuring at the point when there just isn't any more horsepower to push our little boxes through the air any faster.

I seem to recall that MINI gives the top speed on the 02-04s as 135 mph and the 05s as 138. My guess is that the 05's 7 extra HP and the lower gearing accounts for that extra 3 mph at the top.

There's probably a formula for this, but I don't know what it is. (Anyone know the MINI's coefficient of drag?)

 

Just curios, has anyone timed an '04 with the newest software? Maybe it is also faster than before the upgraded software was installed. Mite be closer to the '05...0-60 runs, and be under 6.9 secs. Tim

 

I don't think this is correct. It would be true if each car could reach redline in 6th gear, but neither can.

In the case of a car that can't reach redline in high, the car reaches its top speed at the point when the horsepower trying to accelerate the car equals the drag (air, friction, rolling resistance, etc.) trying to slow the car down. The car literally runs out of horsepower.

Thus, one would expect that the 05s, with 7 more HP would have a higher top speed. And according to MINI, they do - 138 mph vs. 135.

(Someone please correct me if I got any of this wrong.)

 

Here's an interesting discussion of MINI aerodynamics and top speed:

The Math of Driving Way Too Fast

 

fuzzyface I'm with you on this one. I think if an expert driver drove my car (04MCS) back to back before and after the software change the times would be lower (not sure how much though). But this is just ancedotal... the car (to me) just "feels" faster after the software change, not sure if it actually is.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong. The 05 has lower gearing only on 3rd, 4th, and 5th. As such the gearing does not change 0-60 time.

 

Hey Mike,

Thanks again for doing this swap with me! This is probably how swingers feel. :-S The gearing on your car is incredible. I'm confident that in same-gear roll-ons, our cars would be just about even despite the power advantage for my car. I imagine yours pulling ahead then mine reeling you in when you have to shift. I like some of the new touches too.

Here's what I like better on the '05 compared to my '03:

Plastic outside door handle trigger (my metal one froze a few times)
Lighted inside door handles
3 spoke steering wheel with AWESOME anatomical contouring
Cloth/leather seats (grippier and more breathable than my all-leathers)
The doors open and close with a "tighter" feel (may just be the 30k on mine)
Xenon projectors give a much nicer, more even spread of light

Here's what I like better on my '03 compared to the '05:

More power (duh! mine's modded)
Whalen **** (that stocker just feels like palming a basketball)
Short shifter (I forgot how long the stock throws are)
Speedo/tach layout (without nav, the tach is partially blocked by the wheel and the speedo is way over in the next county)
Clock location (in the speedo rather than overhead)
No black ice "ding" :-)

Considering almost all of the plusses for my '03 are due to mods, I'd say you'll have one screamer of a car once you put in a few choice mods. ;-)

 

My understanding is they're lower across the board. I don't recall where I picked this up, but I've got this on my hard drive:

2005 MINI Cooper S trans ratios:

1st 12.789
2nd 7.793
3rd 5.651
4th 4.615
5th 3.828
6th 3.126

2004 (and earlier?):

1st 11.425
2nd 7.181
3rd 5.397
4th 4.407
5th 3.656
6th 2.986

Using 100*(2004-2005)/2004 I came up with the following percentages:

1st -11.9%
2nd -8.5%
3rd -4.7%
4th -4.7%
5th -4.7%
6th -4.7%

 

Andy,
Those were almost my same feeling between my modded '03 and my new '05. My new '05 has the JCW kit on it, but I did drive quite a few stock '05's before I bought mine and they were great. The power definitely feels a lot stronger. The '05 feels much more solid than my '03, so it is not just the miles.

 

Gosh darn it. I've only got 3,000 on my 04, and now I'm kicking myself for not waiting a hair longer. Oh, well, life's too short to worry about it. I guess I'll have to wait a year or two and order a Lotus Elise.

 

Since the stock torque rating is 4.5% higher (162 lb-ft -vs- 155 lb-ft), the effective improvement in "oomph" for an '05 is:

1st 17.0%
2nd 13.4%
3rd 9.4%
4th 9.4%
5th 9.4%
6th 9.4%

 

Since torque is what really gives the initial "oomph" in the car, the extra 7lbs of torque with the better gear ratio really makes it feel more powerful. If you figure the 15% pulley gives about 10lbs or so of torque, than you can see why the '05 feels almost as powerful as a car with a 15% reduction pulley.

 

Supersand, I felt that my '04 had more omph after the latest software,but did not know if it was just wishfull thinking or not. It sure runs better with a solid 22 mpg in the city and 34+ highway and smoother acceleration too boot!!!Thats why I wanted to know if anyone had done a recent time for 0-60. We may never know, Tim

 

Just wait until the 05 folks start adding mods on top of the new changes.

 

I'd expect more than 10 lb-ft from a 15% pulley. On my car, it was almost 15 lb-ft at the wheels. An '05 with pulley, intake, chip, cat-back should be able to easily dispatch a similarly modded '02-'04.

 

Interesting post. Thanks. :smile:

 

Interesting stuff, it won't be long before we start to retrofit 05 gearing to our 02-04's. I envision 05 mcs trannys on e bay already. By the way I have taken my car to redline in 6th gear so I know the brick can do it. I'm glad I didn't wait for a 2005 mcs for the same reason I wouldn't wait for an 07. To me it would be waisted time, I've enjoyed life so much more since I took the mini home. Not trying to offend anybody here, nor venting jelousie. Is just that I'm honestly a happy 03 owner, 05 mcs's just make the world a better place.
There is a lot of grinning going on and that is a very good thing.