It's in the title...I am going to attend a track day at Laguna Seca and currently have the stock brake setup. My question is this: will I be frustrated by my brakes over heating, should I consider and upgrade? Keep in mind that I am a little tight on cash so I probably shouldn't buy a BBK (even though I really want the Wilwood kit). I would like to attend an occasional track days without worry about severe brake fade-I would really rather not change pads at the track either (I hear that can be a pain, at least the rears). Will my brakes be acceptable for 25-30 min at a time on the track, giving about an hour to cool of between runs? Should I get new pads, rotors, fluid, lines?
Your imput is greatly appreciated.

 

gregsminis,

In general for 25-30 min sessions on the track you should be fine.
When you start your brakes will be cold so no problem in the beginning. As you go around and start using your brakes just be careful how much you use them. The harder you brake the more heat you generate and as heat builds up you will start to notice some brake fade. If the fade gets to be too much you can pull into the pit area before the full session is done or you can go a little slower at the end.

I'd suggest rather than going fast and being hard on your brakes from the start you can run your stock brakes and try to be as smooth as possible. Watch your throttle and reduce speed a little then tap on the brakes to settle down your MINI before turns. Go for smoothness the first half of the session, usually they wave flags to let you know that you are at halfway point then you can go a little harder for the second half.

After you finish a session make sure you cool down on the last lap and not apply the parking brake. Coast into the pit area and drive to a safe area using minimal brakes. Put up your bonnet and check your brake fluid. If you see fluid on the outside of your brake container then you may be boiling your fluid due to the heat.

 

Where is the best place to buy brake pads. More then likely they would be EBC green stuff pads because I have stock rotors and would mainly want less brake dust and little bit more braking power.

 

IMHO, the only thing you really need to do is go ahead and flush the brake system with a good fluid like Ate Blue or 200 (sometimes called gold). The stock brakes will be fine. I punish mine all the time, and while they will wear quickly on the track and fade a bit towards the end of a session it's really not that bad... If you eat up your pads at a DE and you're still under your maintenance window, just take it in and let them replace them...

JMHO, the Green Stuff don't make good pads for autocrossing or DE's - from my experience, they retain more heat than the stock pads and fade worse. I'd only run Green Stuff on the street. If you really wanted to go with another pad, I'd look into the Ferodo 2500 or Mintex 1144...

If pads are dusting, they're working...

 

Try some of the NAM sponsors like-
Helix13.com $79 for front pair and $69 for rear pair
http://helix13.com/html/products/pro...ew.php?p=9&h=m
Also mini rear brake tool $54!!!

Piloracing.com $75 for fronts and $70 for rear pair
http://www.piloracing.com/shop/products.php?cat=12
Outmotoring.com $80 per pair front/rear
http://outmotoring.com/ebc_green_stuff_brake_pads.html

Webbmotorsports.com
http://webbmotorsports.com/brakes.php
Randy doesn't list the EBC Green pads but can get them and will price match.

Mossmini, Minimania, and MINI-madness also carry EBC green pads.

 

EBC Green Stuff Pads are fine for the street, BUT DO NOT run them on the track. they will be gone after a few hot laps and you will not have any brakes, and big bill to fix everything.

if this is your first track day, try them out ans see how they feel. it all depends on how you drive. if after that you might need to upgrade. you can pick just pads, or all the way to a BBK. you can get big brake kits for as low as 900 these days. good luck.

 

Isn't Laguna Seca really hard on the brakes? The corkscrew, the left before the front straight, the end of the front straight?

The SS brake lines aren't going to help with fade, they help with feel.

If you have a very limited budget for a track day (which I understand completely ), I'd do the following as a minimum:
1) flush with the brake fluids mentioned
2) Make sure you've practiced bleeding your brakes before you go (yeah, I know it could be part of item 1). I can't remember which forum I last read this on, but there's a company out there called SpeedBleeders. And, I think that's their web site. While not as slick as a power bleeder, they make one man brake bleeding possible at a cost of only about $3.00 per corner.
3) Bring along an extra set of front pads. I operate under the Boy Scout principle -- if you bring it you don't need, if you don't you will.

The last track day I went to I went to a friendly parts supplier of mine and told him what I was up to and asked him if I could bring the pads back if they were still in their original wrapper. As I was upfront with him before I ordered the pads, he was totally cool with it. And, I ended up not needing them.

What you didn't mention was how comfortable you feel doing this stuff yourself. If you're not, don't worry. As long as you've got the parts, there's always somebody at the track with more skill, tools and knowhow than you've got that's willing to help. It's absolutely amazing what free beer after the end of the lapping sessions can get you.

Hunter

 

That's great to hear guys. Thank you for the advice. Now I don't have to hear, "Geez, that's expensive," from my girlfriend. Of course, she would really be thinking, 'why didn't he spend that on me?' It would be hard for me to replace the stock pads/rotors due to their free replacement under warranty, especially since my car is at less that 6k mi.

 

www.raceshopper.com Their price on Ferodo brake pads made the MINI vendors look like crooks. Outstanding and freindly service too.

I currently use Ferodo 2500's which have survived three track days.

EBC Greens were great for one track day and then they sucked on the track. Two track days and they cracked, split, chunked and one totally disintegrated. I'm being kind in my description of them

 

CCM thaks for the lead . I was wondering which way to go with this and it looks like the " Greens " are going to get scrapped for the 2500's. Do you recall your price for them. They are closed and I could not see a price on the site.

 

Also right now Moss has PowerSlots for only $88.00 per rotor. I use Motul brake fluid.

Jeff

 

Thumbs up to the Ferodo DS2500's! I also get mine from raceshopper.com. By the way, you really only need to replace the fronts as they do most of the work.

Don't get new rotors for now. When your track day is over, put the stock pads back on and use your service package when and if needed to get brake work done.

 

Oh, and the price for the fronts is $118.00 plus shipping, which for me in the past was $8.

I've done several track days on the stock setup and was O.K. A bit of fade on a track that was rough on brakes.

 

Thanks for the advice, that's what I'm leaning towards. Has anybody tried Hawk pads?

 

I've heard that while Hawks give great stopping, they are very abrasive and rough on one's rotors. Pricewise, they are not that much less than the Ferodo's. I had considered them last time around, but went back to the Ferodo's after trying out EBC's Red Stuff. Didn't like the red stuff, and they are no longer available, anyway.

 

For stock rotors, the Ferodo 2500 or 3000's are the only ones that are going to at least tolerate being cooked at Laguna Seca. They'll hit their upper temp limit, but they won't turn to mush and fade to nothing. The stock pads will be toast after two laps, as will the EBC Greens (which will also literally disintegrate, not just fade). My experience with Hawk pads isn't good; poor modulation, quirky friction coefficient as they heat up, and did I mention crappy modulation?

I suppose that leaves you with Ferodo pads for track with stock rotors. You only need fronts, if you're strapped for $. Don't waste your money on OE replacement rotors if your stockers are functioning. Remember slots and holes only reduce surface area (and thus stopping). Only crappy pads need slots/holes to scrape the glazing.

My $0.02, probably more,
Ryan

 

Laguna can be very hard on brakes. Towards the end my first track day at Laguna, the stock pads were toasted and the pedal was mushy resulting in some scary brake fading.
Changed over to Ferodo 2500's and Motul 600 brake fluid. No more scary brake fading. Have over (8) track days on these pads with stock rotors and all are holding up very well.
I've since upgraded to UUC BBK with Hawk HT-10's. Working on air ducting to the front pads - thats another story. It never ends.

 

Not sure how hard every uses there brakes here but I personally would not recomend the Ferodo 2500's for track use. For two track days I used slotted rotors, rbf600 brake fluid, and the 2500 brake pads. End result: grooves in my front rotors from metal to metal contact. The pads completely disentegrated.I would go with some pagid's or something for the track.

From past experience I have found that one of the cheapest solutions and also the most effective is running brake ducts to the front rotors. With the factory sized rotors and caliper, brake fade is not avoidable unless you baby them . Not fun if you ask me.

 

Man where are you running to do that?!

...and what're you running now?

 

Has anyone tried the EBC Redstuff pads?

 

Asodestrom - Redstuff are about a half-step better than Greenstuff, which doesn't say much on the track.

 

I would vote for the Feredo 2500s and fresh fluid. I did a 2 day driving school in Summit Point in the summer (100F+ weather) and the brakes hold up very well. Learning how to use the brakes properly will prevent the brakes to fade early IMHO. Enjoy your track day.

 

Now that I am pretty sure which pads to get I was looking at prices. I noticed the following on Randy's site-Ferodo DS2500 Brake Pads-
"Price: $139 front pair." By pair...does this mean two pads (enough for one side of the car), or four. Do I order one of these "front pairs" or two? I want to make sure I know how much I need to spend, I also don't want to get ready to do the install and realize I only have half the parts needed. Thanks

 

Forget the Red Stuff!

A pair for the fronts will cover both sides, right and left, 4 pads. Randy's a great guy, but if you want to save yourself $20 go to www.raceshopper.com and call their number. Also great guys and excellent service.

 

If this is your first track day I would change to a good fluid (I use Motul 600) and just use the stock pads, but keep an eye on them. You'll probably be spending most of your time learning the track and not alot of time cooking your brakes.....

For what it's worth, I've had good luck with Hawk HP+ and HT-10 pads on BMWs...if you did want to change pads you could probably do OK with front HP+ pads and you'll save some $$$ too (think they're about $90). On the Cooper I'm using front PF97s (stock rears) and am very happy with them. Curious, who is selling HT-10s for MINIs?

Gary