Several months back I went into the dealer to have the Timing Chain looked at as it was making that rattle noise we have all come to hear, learn or repair/replace. Picked up my baby and all was well. They had said the timing chain was stretched and needing to be replace. This was my second timing chain replacement in the last 11 years. First was 47k miles, this one was 156,400 miles. Not bad I would say. Anyway, two days later I brought it back in because it was making a noise (and we MINI owner's know our noises) that I have never heard before. It wasn't a clunk, rattle, vibration, whine or hissing. But a knock from the underside. At a cold start it sounds terrible. When I accelerate, it gets louder, but doesn't happen as often. As the engine warms up it comes and goes, but when at a stop light, I clutch in, go to first, start to accelerate, its back instantly, but it is also occasionally there at idle. I can feel it at my feet, so it seems to be coming from the bottom of the engine, but it sounds like someone or something is knocking on the firewall. There is no change when I depress the clutch, so I know it is not related to that. The dealer said we'd need to drop the bottom end to take a closer look, but that is going to be costly and I need to be sure that I want what is required to resolve it at that time because apparently it is a lot of work... I assume they are just dropping the oil pan, but I don't know. Additionally my service rep said its probably going to require a new engine and we discussed buying used and having it all installed and reusing my current turbo -- That being said, that was at 156,450 miles and I have been driving around with it for the last 200 and while it is still making such noise and wondering if I am hurting the engine each mile it is still running fine (but that doesn't mean it really is).

What do you all make of it? Have you heard or had someone else describe such an issue or noise before? If so, do you recall the remedy? If you knew that it was going to cost you at least $2,500 (that is a guestimate) to drop the bottom end out to see what it is would you allow the dealer (regardless of whether you trust your dealer -- take that out of the equation -- let's say you trust the dealer... I do and have never had problems with the techs or the service reps or the work they have done in the past) to have a look including whether you had the money or not? I would really like to get my 09 S back in tip-top shape (as I also need a new left front sway link, all four corner brakes: pads and rotors) but if the engine is the problem why waste money on something that won't have an impact on it. I think I may drop it off at my Euro shop down the road to see what they make of it. Their hourly is better than the dealer and they're closer.

Regardless, I'd really like to hear what the NAM community make of it.

Thanks in advance.

 

Could it be engine mounts?

At 156k miles, and with a bunch of other items to repair/replace I'd be inclined to look for something else and not pour more money into it. If you like the R56, look for a '12 or '13 model, maybe move on to an F56? That $2500 could easily escalate at a dealer. I'm a bit surprised the dealer hasn't driven it to hear the sound rather than offering an expensive teardown.

I've looked at what used engines cost with N14/N18 often $2-3k and still requiring a bunch of peripherals to complete. Also is your turbo original - do you want to put a 156k turbo on a refreshed engine? Complete first generation R56 MCS cars can be had for $5-6k with less miles on them than yours

Can you record your sound? There are some on the form that are pretty good at picking out what the sound is due to. I thought I had possible timing chain issues but turned out to be drive belt and several picked that out immediately.

Good luck
MacMini34

 

Could motor mounts make a knocking noise when I am driving? I know the engine is moving, but the repetitive noise seems geared toward what is happening at the bottom near my feet and on the left hand side of the car when accelerating and driving, but when the hood is popped the noise sounds more like a rattle coming from the timing chain area.

I recently picked up an F60 JCW back in March so I am not in the market to buy another car. This 09 R56 which I call Onyx (yes like the Pokemon) was my first car (not my first one I drove when obtaining my license), but the first car I brought by myself 11 years ago. It has a lot of sentimental value and I've worked on it replacing maintenance parts and modded the exterior, engine and interior, suspension, swapped out the downpipe three times, etc. I have an emotional attachment to it. A deer ran and swiped its *** on the front left headlight (if only I saw it and broke sooner), claimed it under insurance, they totaled the car based on repair cost, I bought it back from salvage, fixed everything and here we are. I am never parting ways with it -- so it must be fixed.

I have looked at used motors costing similar pricing and yes I thought about attaching my turbo on whatever I bought, but also looking into what deals I could pulled from a used motor and turbo. You may be right about the 1st gen MCS, but its not my R56 and the setup I currently have.

I have attached several audio files for a listen. As for the audio file "Driving (inside cabin)" note that around the 1 min mark I actually start driving and you hear the noise and then around 1:40 it turns to a rattle noise.

The dealer got back with me and said this: "We can swap your existing turbo on to another motor. It will have to come apart no matter what. I think a new engine from MINI is close to $5500.00 + the assoc parts. The labor for new or used is going to be about $2500.00. Customers have had success with Condons. If you purchase from them directly you can get a 1 or 2 year parts & labor warranty and they will ship it here. Its worth the extra couple hundred dollars. The used motor would be the way to go.

 

Before committing to any repairs of such cost, I would insist on a definitive diagnosis on the exact source of the noise. I wouldn't trust any shop proposing replacing anything (let alone the entire engine!) without having pinpointed the exact malfunction.

Have you tried identifying the location where the noise is greatest by pressing a long screwdriver (or any other long stick, even a piece of a broom stick made of hard wood works well) against various engine parts and holding an ear to the other end?

 

Yes of course. That’s always been the plan. See what root cause is. However, my dilemma and fear is drop off at dealer and they dissemble and tell me what we took apart is broke and can’t be put back, now you need to do this: A) engine rebuild or B) swap in a new motor... What do I do if I have not looked into what it costs or have any ducks in a row for next steps or know that now I’m forced to make a decision. I think x # of days after drop off I’m gonna need to be ready to put out quite a few buckaroos (even at a dissembled pricing standpoint). The question is when am I comfortable to drop off and start that process? I know I am not there yet, but what to know what things are before walking into a can of worms.

Yes, I kind of done what you have mentioned. But not stuck something down by the engine bc you never know what might get caught on it. I really do think it’s an internal issue that I cannot see.

 

There are ways to either narrow down or eliminate inidvidual faults without opening up the engine. If they simply proposed to swap the engine without even bothering explaining their motivation for it (e.g. why they exclude anything that would be cheaper to repair without replacing the engine), I wouldn't trust them any more.

Regarding the screwdriver: As long as you only press against visible, stationary parts and do not poke in blind spots, you're good. Besides: only the pulleys, the tensioner, the friction wheel assembly, the serpentine belt and the fan are external moving parts (at least no other come to mind).

 

Well, a sentimental attachment as described certainly changes the equation.

I agree with griogos that your shop should be able to do a better diagnosis without expensive interventions. Isn't that their job? Aren't they experts (perhaps that's a rhetorical question)? There's a person on this forum that got pretty far along on an N18 swap for an N14. They're not too far from you. If they're reading this they may want to chime in...

Maybe it's an opportunity, with some additional expense, to build a really good engine.

You can get an automotive stethoscope fairly cheaply - $5-10, but I hope someone with a tuned ear can offer you advice on the sound clips you provided.

Let us know how you proceed.

cheers
MacMini34

 

Apologies for any confusion, but the shop/dealer will be taking a look at her and providing their diagnosis. I was never planning on getting a full engine replacement without first determining the root of cause. At the same time, when I brought her back after getting the timing change replaced, they did look at it and say we need to drop the pan and take a closer look, but what we may find is not so good news. That being said, I will be dropping her off to see ff they can find and determine the issue and go from there.

 

Dealer got back to me after I described the noise and now they think it is the flywheel failing. That is a whole heck of a lot cheaper than a new motor. Just need to schedule dropping it off and I'll be sure to update you all. Thanks for your comments.