Im installing front Ireland 1.25deg camber plates, 25mm hotchkis rear bar (starting at soft setting) and hotchkis rear control arms (have 2 - I can use for camber or toe, planning camber/lower). Im on a stock 2007 r52 jcw suspension otherwise. The car has 50k miles.

Can anyone recommend a good neutral (or ever so slightly oversteer-biased) alignment setup for me? My wife will drive the car also and when I did an agressive autox setup in my s2000, she spun the car! So I want to keep this setup more mild, but still turn in happy.

Im getting the car aligned next week and just want to be able to tell the tech what Im looking for. I dont have a lot of experience with different alignment setups, but I know you guys do! Thanks.

 

At the risk of being exposed of my ignorance, here is my view. You already have the JCW springs so you are not changing the ride height. The IE fixed plates will give you extra 1.25 degrees of negative camber up front. You new 22mm RSB would not change anything on the alignment but will make the car significantly more neutral in the right hands. I would stick with the factory JCW alignment spec. Some will argue more negative camber for the rear if you can get it. Either way, I don't think I can feel the difference for road use. Changing front toe can affect stability and how well the car track. I know squat about effect of changing rear toe.

For full disclosure, with my Swift spring that lowered the car about 3/4", and 22mm RSB I have yet to change the factory alignment. Mini rides like a million dollar sportscar, on road and on track. I always read the tire wear and there is no abnormal wear except what is expected from track abuse. We have a tendency to overanalyze. For me a dual purpose Mini there are a lot to compromise.

 

I'd go for:
Front - slight to 0 toe in and camber as the plates give you. Can't really change caster
without offset control arm bushings, etc.
Rear - slight to 0 toe in and -1.25 to -1.5 camber.
This is approximately factory settings anyway.

 

Concur w/Cristo....and definitely start out w/the softest setting on the RSB.

 

Ok great, Im of the same mindset.. keep it close to factory. I just wanted to know if changing any of the settings would assist. I like the idea of -1.25 in the rear to keep it all the same.

What is the stock rear camber setting?

 

Stock rear camber is -1.0 to -2.0.

 

What is the stock front camber setting, with min and max camber values while stock?

Thanks

 

Front stock is -0.5 degrees (+/- 0.4 deg) or about -0.1 to -0.9 deg.

 

I fooled around with many settings on my '10 R56 S.
With the fixed IE plates, Konis, JCW springs and JCW rear bar.
I settled on neg 1.7 front camber and 1.8 rear camber and ZERO toe all around. Stable,responsive and fun - nothing earth shattering, but enjoyable to drive. No tram line effect and nothing quirky in mixed pavements or weather conditions. I am still on run flats. That seems to be the big factor before changing too many things - to decide if you will keep RFs and modify suspension OR change tires and everything else. Either way it sounds like you are heading in the right direction. BTW, the IE plates are different L and R and the bearing will need to be repacked upon installation. Mine shipped to me with zero grease and no nuts. I bought new factory nuts. I am curious about your rear control arms - you are going to install 1 pair on the lower? Have you considered installing all 4? Have fun!

 

My setup shares a lot of the same as you (note, this was posted under first gen, which is up to 2006... still going to be very similar for a 2nd gen)... I was going for aggressive but streetable, or call it neutral bordering on oversteer. I daily drive the car but also autocross a fair amount and run a few track days a year.

2006 JCW with:
-IE fixed front plates
-JCW shocks with Swift Spec-R springs (0.7" drop front @ 280 lbs/in, 0.5" drop rear @ 308 lbs/in)
-Hotchkis comp rear sway bar (hollow, set full soft)
-Hotchkis H-sport rear adjustable control arms (lower only)

Here's what I gave to the shop, don't have a copy of the results handy but they were pretty much right on this:

FRONT:
CAMBER: whatever the fixed plates provide (-1.5 to -1.7 deg)
TOE: Zero, up to 1/16” TOE OUT total
basically get close to zero, but err on the side of a slight toe OUT

REAR:
CAMBER: -1.4 degrees (-1.3 to -1.5)
This was less than the factory setting, especially with the drop due to springs
TOE: Total 1/8” TOE IN, +/- 1/16”

I think zero toe all around would also be fine for you... a little less aggressive, a little more understeer prone, a little more tire friendly, but slightly slower if you're talking competitive racing. Like you said with the S2000 spinning... really you WANT to be able to spin the car if you're really trying to get the best autocross times. Autocross just requires learning to drive a slightly loose setup to be really fast. Also, tires are super important... as in a somewhat questionable alignment with good tires will probably be faster than a perfect alignment with a lower class of tires (all relative to what extremes we're talking, of course).

 

I would imagine a more aggressive MINI setup would still be more manageable than an S2000. I mean, those things are known for their trailing throttle oversteer...

 

mini's setup right also have trailing throttle oversteer

 

I just had an alignment done but I have a countryman. I decided to go stock spec but I have my 25mm rear sway on stiffest setting. It allows the rear to rotate nicely when off the throttle but hooks when you're neutral through the turn or on the gas. It doesn't step out and get sideways, you just feel it sort of floating across the pavement, very controlled. I will note (this was before alignment) that in wet conditions, the rotation happens much easier and caution is needed. I've still never gotten sideways but it does happen a lot easier. So my vote it stock settings and play with the rear sway to get your rotation.

 

Sure, any car could/would. But not every car has a reputation snap oversteer, and the S2000 does.

 

I've seen mini's snap oversteer and I've done it myself a couple of times I was warned about this too, so I would say they do have a reputation for this once they have a big rear bar

 

ok

 

one of mine

 

mega I think you spun because you were off gas while cornering.. lift off oversteer.

 

let's c your meister klass driving.

 

Hehe! Well, since you asked, In my z06, I did about four years with a NE club - hit all of the tracks around here from Watkins glen to Limerock to Mosport to Mt Tremblant... When I "retired," I was class champion, so I suppose I know a thing or two! My other ride ATM is a '17 Zl1, which is quite a different sort of sports car! The Mini is my winter fun car.

I was playing around with my mini today on a pretty fast circle.. I was able to get some pretty decent lift off over-steer but it was controllable with a little added throttle back on and counter-steer of course.. I have my 25mm bar set to the most rigid, but I am on lm32 winter tires. I have a feeling that with summer tires that break less progressively, I'd want to change to the middle setting on the rear bar.

 

correct, once you put some swaybar on these mini's it drastically changes what the rear end will do. It'll go from terminal understeer stock to a car that will lift oversteer

 

On the s2000s, the AP1s were famous for snapping so when they changed engines in 04 to the AP2 they changed the suspension around.

Had two AP1s, they were great cars. I can still hear that 9k redline wail in my head.

 

I owe you an apology. What I posted was uncalled for and I felt bad all day yesterday. I was grumpy with all the bad things happening in the world. We are all here to share our enthusiasm for our love of Mini. It is so easy to transgress on the web that one would not do in person.

 

omg, no worries at all! Dont think about it anymore. My skin is a little tougher than that!