I am going to order a mini in November. I am debating between getting the base or S. I have read that the base seems sluggish until you get used to it but with the base you feel much more every crack or bump in the road. This information is from people who review these cars; I do not think they drive them regularly. Also (I know some of you will cringe) I am going to get an automatic. My sales person told me that the S will come out with a traditional automatic in Janaury.

Can you give me pros and cons about the base and the S. I think either one would be grand but would still like to know more. Thanks, ski

 

Learn to drive stick and get the S. You won't be disappointed....

 

If you drive an automatic the get the Auto in Jan. and forget any other opinion. No need to change now. ENJOY the S. It will make you

 

I knew I would get this response an appreciate it. I know this is the sentiment with most mini drivers.

I know how to drive a stick as I have many stick drive cars. But I drive in heavy stop and go traffic to work and back for close to an hour. After the clutch broke on one car and I was in first gear. I went to an automatic in my next car. ski

 

I had never driven a stick before I got my MCS. It is a lot of fun, but I can see your point in stop and go traffic. The few times, including yesterday, when driving in city traffic I wished I had driven my other car, which is auto. For my two cents, I would wait for the Jan builds and get an S auto. You will not regret the decision, what ever it may be!


Good luck!

 

I have had my mini for 5 weeks now and have driven 3000 miles. I got a:

MCS CR/W w/stripes
Premium
Sport pack (everything but the 17's I kept the 16" V-spoke)
Chrome inside & out
CR dash bits
Chronopack


I read all the posts about stiff ride and the like. Also about the fact that there was "no power" on the MC. haveing spent a lot of drive time in the MCS I say don't worry about ride. Yes its stiff but in a good way. Yes you feel the road, but your supposed to in a sport car. Its also not overbeaing. Before the MCS I had an Accord for a year. Now thats a squoshy ride. My wife drives it now and I cant stand to drive it. Its unresponsive and gives no road feel. Its a Honda.

Now after 3 months or waiting for the order and 5 weeks behind the wheel. I can safley say the the grin is still there. I am in stop and go traffic along with highway speeds everyday, Its always fun to drive.

With that said my advice to you. Either the MC or MCS will be a great car to drive. If money is tight get the MC and dont feel bad about it. There are things about the MC that I prefer to the MCS. The only difference is speed (now before all you MCS owners flog me you can most of the parts to the MC that the MCS has except the supercharger and exuast). How fast do you want to accelerate. The MCS is Fast...really fast...almost too fast to drive it to the limit. I often find that I have accelerated to 70 or 80 mph on the onramp of the highway only to have to slow down to merge.

Ont thing that is nice about the MCS is that you can pass on the highway. Even in 6th gear you still have the get up an go to pass w/out having to shift down.

So you want to know what to get. MC - MCS matters not. What I love:

Every color - choose ONE that you like. thats if you can narrow it to 1.
Premium pack - Yes argue the weight all day long but there is something about that sunroof that is just ooo-sooo-cool.
Sport - DSC if your not a track guy then youll need it. The HIDs are so white and really cool.
Chronop pack - do you need it. hell no. is it cool to watch the oil pressure go up and down. Hell yes.
15" 16" 17" pick the one that you like.
Love the chrome on the inside. Like the chrome on the outside.
Red dash...I thought I would be too old to get this option or it would be too much. I love it and I get a lot of oohs and ahhs from non mini people.

What to get it does not matter. What every you get and whyever you come to the reason to get it the Mini is a GREAT car. BMW out did them selves on this one.

Now go Motor

 

ski,
The best reviewer is yourself. The best way to judge a car is when you take it for a test drive. Your options are the following:
Since you are considering the automatic-
MC with CVT (includes full automatic for heavy traffic, Sport Drive, manual)
MCS with new automatic/paddle shifters (not a CVT)

The MCS with automatic is due out in January 05 so you cannot test drive it.
The MC with CVT is out now and you can try to test drive it at the dealership or go for a drive with someone that has one.

The ride quality in an MC with CVT is much smoother and better for daily driving than the MCS (due to the stiffer MCS suspension and often the 17" runflat wheels). If you want better performance and handling from the MC then replace the stock 15" or 16" wheels with lightweight 15" wheels with non runflat performance tires from Yokohama, Falken or Toyo, etc. The MCS ride is OK on smooth roads and if you don't mind the sport car type ride.

Sure there is more power in an MCS but I think that if you learn how to drive the CVT, you will find ample power for most urban driving from 0-50 mph. If you do alot of high speed freeway cruising or like to drive on a long track then the MCS is usually more capable. With suspension upgrades like lowering springs and adjustable rear swaybar you can do very well with either an MC or MCS.

A word about the CVT- This is the most versatile transmission. Full auto mode is great for anyone to drive when they don't want to shift and fuss with heavy traffic. Sure it costs more but also it has resale value. Sport drive is also good and gives you a little higher reving before shifts. Manual mode allows you to shift up or down as you wish like a clutchless manual transmission. After you learn how to use each mode it becomes much more fun and more versatile than a manual only transmission. Who knows, your wife might like Sport drive and take over the MINI.

If you have driving events and autocross in your area you might want to go and see if there are any MINIs there and if any are MC with CVT which is a great setup for autocross.

 

It's one of those things. If you're debating between the two, then the MCS probably isn't going to be the car for you. Either the MCS jumps out at you and says "buy me!", or it doesn't. Save the 3K and enjoy the MC. :smile:

 

As a fast driving MC'er, I'd say choose the one that looks best to you, and that you can afford.

I drove a stick for 10 years, a 1991 Acura Integra, and couldn't wait to get an automatic. Well it happened, and for the first year, it was great, but by the 2nd year, I was missing driving a stick. When I got my MC in 2003, there was no question whether I'd get a stick or CVT.

Now 1 year later and 25,000 miles, my MC is still a blast. I drive it hard and fast, and the adrenaline rush is always there. There are 2 ways to get better performance out of your Cooper. Chip it, which is the least expensive and best bang for the buck mod---the MTH Powerchip software costs less than $200 for the cable and tuning, and you can immediately feel the power gain. (Exhaust and intake do more for sound than performance)

The other way, which is less expensive, is to NOT drive the MC conservatively.

That is, drive in 3rd gear on the freeways at 70mph, or accelerate from 1st to 3rd gear, shifting at 6,000 rpm. My best 0-60 has been 8.26seconds on my now chipped MC, and that's plenty fast for me.

Sure I don't get the great gas mileage that the MC is truly capable of, but I still do about 24mpg, and every mile puts a huge smile on my face.

When MCS drivers say there is enough power to not have to change gears to pass that's fine and dandy, but I think it's very cool to be driving in a fuel conservative 5th gear at 3,000 rpm, then downshift to 4th or even 3rd for what feels like a turbo blast--pushing you back in the seat feeling--intake wailing all the way.

Take your pick, either the MC or MCS is a fun car! The MCS can really be modded and taken to a much higher level than an MC if that's your eventual goal, but I like being in an MC here in Los Angeles. There are far more MCS's than MC's, making my car a bit more unique by default.

Richard

 

If you spend the majority of your time driving in heavy stop n' go traffic, why not save yourself the expense of a few extra ponies that you'll never use in the 5 feet it'll take you to catch up with the car in front of you? Auto Cooper would be better suited to that type of driving.

If you're interested in having a good fun drive now and again, then get the S (manual) and sell one of your other manual tranny cars to put toward an automatic commuter vehicle.

It seems to me that if you're never going to "use" the S -- or you're going to "use" it very infrequently, then you may as well buy the auto Cooper and have PLENTY of fun during the times that you do get to drive spiritedly.

:smile:

 

I own both. Send me a private message if you have any specific questions between the Cooper CVT and the Cooper S.

 

Not to confuse you more but I believe in the opposite of what dominicminicoopers thinks. If you're debating between the two, it usually means you're afraid of the Cooper not having enough power (and from the way the original post was worded, I'd say that's the case here). And if you're afraid the Cooper might not be fast enough for you, more than likely (and we've seen it many times on this board) you'll still feel that way after you buy one. Then you may STILL love your Cooper but you'll always regret not having the extra power and you know if you try to trade your Cooper for an S, you'll get hosed. If you even think you might need the power, that probably means you're gonna use it. I say if you're not sure, get the S.

 

I've driven sticks most of my adult life. My first car was a 4-speed 1959 Morris Mini Minor. The MINI I have now is an '03, with CVT. I had bought it for my wife, who turned it over to me and still drives her old car. Now we have 3 cars, and who cares? I LOVE this CVT! Never in my wildest dreams would I have EVER thought I'd prefer something like this to a stick...but this isn't a real automatic, either. Check out the threads on www.mini2.com/forum to see how others perceive the CVT. I just don't think I'll ever go back to shifting with a clutch again...there's so much to learn about this. Just some thoughts....

 

Thanks for all of the responses. I should have already said that the S does jump out at me. I have driving the base car because it was the only one available now with an automatic. I will not get my car until March so will get what is offered in January. I have a lease car that I turn over in March and then on the same day (I hope) I will get my mini. Again, thanks for the many thoughtful responses. I really appreciate them.By the way I have about decided on silver bottom and black top with sunroof since I am getting the package with that in it. I never bought a car with so many options. I am getting some of them but may have to lease again to afford the payments. Do many of you lease your cars or buy them? Also, have any of you bought and used the mini luggage set? Just too many cute things. ski

 

I financed my '04 MCS for 36 months @ 3.99% APR. I have 24 months left on the loan. I put $4000 cash down and financed the rest. That was exactly one year ago.

The '02 Cooper CVT is already fully paid off:smile: . I originally financed the car for 36 months but paid it off in just 9 months.

I personally much prefer to buy/finance my cars and hold on to them for as long as possible.

I did lease a car once before (An Acura) but did not care too much for the experience. Typically, if you have to lease a car to be able to "afford" the monthly payments, you are simply buying too much car for your budget. That is a financial red flag and a trap many people get themselves into because they not only believe they "deserve" a new shiny car but an expensive one at that.

Either lower the equipment content or look at a cheaper car, but don't get yourself into a financial constraint just to indulge yourself on having a car you can't realistically afford.

Sorry if this sounds like a "sermon" but the best thing in life is to be able to live with the fewest possible debts hanging over your head. A car as much fun as it can be is not worth jeopardizing your finances over, trust me.

 

In response to your "sermon" or just plain honesty, I am thinking of buying with a $4000 down payment. I have leased three cars and really want to buy this car. I am used to leasing but hopefully will buy this one. Interest rates have gone up, unfortunately. Thanks for your response. ski

 

Hello Ski:

The Cooper CVT has a 1.6L 115hp 4-cyl engine. This is a fantastic and sturdy little engine that delivers smooth performance and excellent gas mileage. The CVT transmission is sourced by ZF in Belgium. I currently own a 2 year old 2002 Cooper CVT with 25K troublefree miles. Based on my experience I can tell you that the ZF VT-1 CVT transmission is the most fun "automatic" transmission I have ever owned and stone cold reliable in every conceivable driving situation.

The ZF CVT transmission in the Cooper is totally and completely different from the 4-5-6 speed hydraulic automatic transmissions found in 99% of the cars outthere. For starters, the CVT transmission has no gears, so the gear ratios are "inifinite". This means that when you are accelerating the car, you don't feel the shifting points that you probably experience in your Acura RSX but rather, you get a string of constant acceleration thru the RPM powerband. It feels a bit weird at first because the CVT drives differently from a regular automatic and believe it or not requires "skill" to get the best performance out of it.

The CVT has 3 program modes: Normal, Sport and Steptronic. Normal mode affords the best gas mileage but acceleration is peppy but not neck breaking fast. Sport Mode program instructs the CVT and engine computers to raise and hold the engine RPMs at around 3K RPM where most of the engine power resides. Sport modes allows for much faster take offs and even stronger passing power at highway speeds. Obviously your gas mileage will decrease a little bit because the engine is running at higher RPMs. Steptronic mode allows you to manually "shift" thru six forward "gears" but without a clutch pedal. The shifting action feels very realistic and much better than on Steptronic systems found in regular automatics. The beauty of Steptronic mode is that you can actually use engine braking power much in the same manner as you would in a manual transmission car.

The CVT program modes and different driving techniques are very extensive and varied but they do allow you to explore the car's potential in ways that you could never taught possible. You can switch between all 3 modes on the fly while you driving so if you feel like you wanna crack the whip, all you have to do is with a flick of the gear selector you can find yourself flying down the twisties in Steptronic mode or for immediate passing power, just flick over to Sport Mode.

I highly recommend you visiting www.mini2.com and then go to the "Forums" section and visit the dedicated Cooper CVT discussions. In there you'll find seasoned CVT users such as myself and even some Cooper CVT owners that currently race thier CVT MINIs in the track against much more powerful cars. You'll be surprised to learn how capable this 115HP car is against a 276HP Mitsubishi EVO sedan, for example. In there you'll also find tons of tips and techniques to make the most out of your CVT driving experience.

I am very happy with my 2 year old 2002 Cooper CVT with 25K troublefree miles. The car delivers a consistent 30MPG in heavy city driving with A/C on and pays very little in insurance. My wife and I have taken over 10K miles worth of roadtrips in it and we have been to aprox 7 states (I live in Florida). This car has been in mountain roads, flats, you name it and it just doesn't quit! The CVT loves the highway and it is also an awesome and comfy car in urban traffic.

The CVT drives a bit weird, specially in the 0-10 MPH speed range because it tends to jerk a little bit (But this dissapears as the miles rack up) and given that the MINI has an E-Gas pedal (No cable linkage to the engine) the acceleration tendencies may feel a bit akward as well. Once you "master" the CVT driving technique and become familiar with the 3 programming modes, you will not have a problem accelerating in any traffic situation.

Another positive aspect of the Cooper CVT is that this model has awesome brakes. Unlike some regular automatics, the CVT affords an incredible amount of braking power effect something that you can only experience in a manual transmission car.

I also love my 2004 Cooper S with 13K troublefree miles. The MCS model has a lot more torque than the regular Cooper so the acceleration quality is much better after all is said and done. Basically for $1,500 more over a Cooper CVT, the MCS gives you a Supercharger, Intercooler, SS+ suspension, oil jet coolers and stronger engine mechanicals. The MCS feels more like a sports car, where as the CVT feels more like a nice sporty car but make no mistake, both are tenacious handlers and both can develop scary fast speeds.

The MCS is the model of choice because you can mod it to your hearts and wallets content whereas the Cooper CVT offers very limited modding potential, because it is a very different car.

The only downsides of the MCS is that it is a bit heavier (The regular Cooper feels a bit nimbler in the turns), uses a lot more gas (It is not an economy car but tuned as a high performance car) and it pays higher insurance rates.

I love to drive the MCS because this car is brings a huge grin to my face everytime I drive it. It is incredible how powerful it feels and soon you forget you are driving a car with a small 1.6L engine, difference is that you have a sweet sounding supercharger and 170 horses to play with.

I would not worry about the ride quality. Remember that the MINI is not marketed as a Lexus. This is a serious performance handling car and it behaves as such so the ride will be firm but not teeth jarring or punishing as say as a New Nissan 350Z coupe which in my opinion has a horrid ride quality.

My 2002 Cooper CVT has the original factory "Sport" (Not Sport-Plus) suspension and it has the standard non-runflat 15" tires. You'll feel more of the road in that car than in my 2004 MCS with Sport-Plus suspension, revised factory shocks and stock 16" Dunlop SP5000 runflat tires. I think the ride quality in my '04 MCS is comfortable but still firm enough to allow for agressive handling. I am sure that the standard Cooper with the non SS+ suspension for 2005 is even more comfortable than my '04 MCS with SS+ suspension and way superior to the original shock tuning found in my '02 Cooper.

I highly encourage you to take a test drive of both MC CVT and MCS at your local MINI dealer. You are the only one that can make the final determination as to which model will better suit your needs and wants.

Also, you need to ask yourself several questions about the performance expectations that you will have about your new MINI. Since you drive a 160HP Acura RSX, I suspect you will be happier in the Cooper S model simply because the car will feel more closely related to your RSX. However, you also need to keep in mind the everyday driving conditions in which you will use the car. If you drive in heavy bumper to bumper traffic and you are more concerned with gas mileage but still want to drive an amzingly fun car, the Cooper CVT may work better for you. On the other hand, if you are concerned about performance and like to mod your cars tol increase on the stock perfomance and simply like the sports car persona better, then the MCS maybe your hot ticket.

My philosophy when it comes to purchase these cars is that "less is better". If you opt for the MCS, stick with the 16" tires for the best balance between ride comfort and handling. I don't like bigger/lower profile tires citing concerns with street pothole encounters, low durability and very harsh ride quality with decreased fuel economy.


If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Frank

 

Cooper4us,do you really find the power to be at 3k rpm in your MC? I find mine really pulls at 4500 rpm,and does so right up to 6k.
Love your expanation of the CVT,Sounds like fun

 

Ski:

I put down $10 K on my Cooper (one of the advantages of getting older... if you're lucky and play your cards right, you can do stuff like that). I paid the rest off in about a year. That may be a little aggressive for some pocketbooks, but I recommend paying a car loan off pretty quickly as long as you can afford it while retaining your rainy day savings. I was on a 36 month payment schedule until I compared what my savings were earning with what I was paying in interest.

I've had my car for two years now and I'm toying with the idea of moving up to a Cooper S. Truth is though that the Cooper has more than enough power for 99.9% of my driving and I can have a heckalotta fun with it. When I'm driving I look forward to on-ramps -- the shorter the better -- and curvy mountain roads. I can meet pretty much any challenge by downshifting, and often have to restrain my driving. I'm considering the S because I get some stumbling in first when the air conditioning is on , and I've encounterd a few mountain passes that made me long for more power. Love the takeoff power in the S! I have a manual transmission, but wouldn't hesitate to get the CVT if I were driving in The City (San Francisco, of course!) or stop-and-go rush hour traffic a lot.

Happy motoring, whatever you decide!

 

I don't mean to jack the thread, but before you consider going to an S, I would make sure you got software rev. 38 and then I'd do the MTH CarTune ECU mod.

I just did it a few weeks ago, and my Cooper drives so much better now. First V.38 got rid of my Stumble, atleast it hasn't returned in the last 2,500 miles. And the MTH upgrade has been yielding about 15hp, which significantly improves lower end torque. In fact, driving with the AC on and even additional adult passengers doesn't cause my MINI to lag. Even starting on a hill doesn't require me to rev the engine. Before my mod, I believed the only way to maximize my fun was to drive solo, but now with the extra horses, it's a different animal. Best of all, with the OBDII cable, it'll cost you less than $200 for the mod and it's fully reversible.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=29218

 

the MCS in the first car i had with stick in it. and i'm still loving it. :smile:

 

The "S" jumps out at you?

Case closed! Order the "S".

I'd suggest test driving one as soon as one is available (even while your order is pending) that way if you really want to you can adjust your order. I don't think dealers mind as they just sell your order to someone else.

Re: financing I took out a 6 year note with my credit union. Kept my monthlies very low. Lease numbers from my dealer were WAY higher than the ones that used to be generated by the Mini configurer. Just be ready to say "No, thank you" to the dealer finance person about five or six times.
Have fun!

 

Cooper4us, that's one of the best CVT writeups I've ever seen. My hats off to you, sir!

 

OctaneGuy,

"I'd do the MTH CarTune ECU mod"

Please explain, website? You mention the V38 and this mod, can't find it with searches.

Not to beat an old horse but I feel the MC is not underpowered. I have test driven both cars - twice. The MC has great weight to power and pulls great. The S clearly has better off the line and top end performance but I have never regretted my choice with the MC. I'd also caution the wait time for any S let alone a new paddle shift non-CVT flavor. Were talkin' 9 months plus if you're on the East coast. If this tranny is new and unproven that may throw a red flag unless someone knows of its make and design.

 

Greetings!

I have a MC with CVT and MCS Convertible with Manual. I love them both. However, if you do alot of driving in traffic I would go with the CVT. I use the Convertible to just cruise and be carefree. The CVT has good power. You wont be disappointed. The manual S feels much more substantial. Test drive them both and then decide.