Curious if any NAM members have driven the 2005 Lotus Elise...I heard it's the only production car that can out handle a BMW Mini Cooper



The first Elises should reach U.S. dealerships by the end of June, $40,780 with destination charge. Like the car, option packages are simple by design. The Touring pack ($1,395) delivers the full American ride, with full-leather seating, power windows, a stereo upgrade, double-insulated soft-top, additional sound insulation and full carpet. The Sports pack ($2,480) creates the 4.7-to-60 Elise (without it, Lotus claims 4.9 seconds): 17-inch forged wheels, Lotus sports suspension and Elise-specific Yokohama A048LTS tires. A hardtop is $1,475.

Lotus USA isn't quite sure who will buy Elise. About 500 deposits come from previous Lotus owners; next are hard-core baby boomer enthusiasts. The company expects some "young trendsetters" who appreciate the styling and reliability of a Toyota engine, and it insists import hot rodders are already enamored. The business plan is based on 2200 cars a year, so it should be a no-brainer. For a year or two. What happens when the hard-core has its Elises?

This car is tiny by American standards. The street-drive convoy, with all Elises in a line, might have delayed the realization, but it was driven home passing a maintenance truck at Barber Motorsports Park. The Elise can hide in the shadow of a Ford Focus.

 

The end of June was more than a month ago.

 

This car is under 2000lbs, small, has a real suspension, and has a Toyta power plant. Sign me up.

 

There was a thread created a little while ago, I think in the Off Topic-Autos forum, that stated the first owner of the new Lotus Elise this side of 'the Pond' was in Atlanta if memory serves me correctly. So get ahold of him, and you'll get an answer to how it perfoms. I'm sure if that guy had a MINI, he doesn't any more. Looks like a mean rippin' good machine.
Cheerio,

 

I've driven a 1998 Lotus Elise, but not the 2005 model with the Toyota engine. The '98 had an MG/Rover four banger about 145 ponies and was on another level than the Cooper as far as handling. I would expect that the newer Elise is even a better machine than the '98. It sould be an awesome ride on the track, and an increadible dissapointment as a streetcar, in other words, perfect.

p.s. I'm a former Lotus owner, 1971 Elan +2 S/130.

 

A dash or pragmatism is the only thing keeping my MINI off the market so I could purchase an Elise. I can only afford a daily driver, and the Elise won't work in New England during the winter. Were it not for the snow, the MINI would be gone.

 

I here ya'. 41K is a lot of cash for such a small car that holds 2 people. If priced in the $25-29K range and made by Toyota, the line for this car would huge and waiting lists for years. I would have to consider the new C6 400hp Corvette for that kind of money. I would be a little skeptical with lack of Lotus dealers and the cars future resale value. Chevy finally got the Corvette right this time.

 

That exige is friggin' insane!!!

Jeremy Clarkson Review, right click, save target as... (45 mB)

 

I was the one that had driven on in Atlanta a while ago. It was back in May. I drove one of the two sample ones that they had here at the headquaters. My friend works for a company that coordinates the shipping of them from England to the dealerships in the States. It is not the only car that outhandles a Mini Cooper, but it is definitely one of the few near the price range of the Mini.

The car is great, and so is the Toyota engine. I really would have bought one a few years ago, but I sat in it and I changed my mind. I still feel the same way after driving it lately. Don't get me wrong it is a great car and one that I would normally be very attracted to, but it is not practical in any sense of the word. This is truly a weekend car. I can't even fathom myself taking it to work. It is nearly impossible to get out of. And it is very small. The Mini is about as small as I can go for practicality. I couldn't see spending $40K for a weekend car. I don't have that much money, unless I sold my kids

Not much negative about the car except for that. This is a real race car (or at least as close as you will get, to anywhere near this price). If you have $40K, and are looking for this type of car, you can't go wrong. Nothing this short of $100K, in my opinion can't touch it for it's speed, handling, race car feel, and exclusivity.

 

At $40K, and more the car will kick a MINI's butt. Hey, the MINI's only $25K. Maybe less fun, more money in your pocket. :smile:
Charles

 

I'd rather have the car--extruded aluminum frame, composite shell. Much less an anycar than most of what's out there.

 

Me, too. A 1970 Europa with the Renault engine. Amazing what 85hp in a 1,600 lb car can do. 45mpg on the highway. And it was a street legal race car. Did I mention it was a BLAST to drive? And did I mention the troubles were never ending with it? You have to love a Lotus to live with it.

Phil

 

That's why you get one with a Toyota engine.

 

I've been eye-balling one of these for well over a year, and still contemplate getting on a waitlist. I would still keep my MCS though for fall/winter driving...

While I'm sure that the Elise can outhandle the MINI, as tested, out of the box, the MINI has more upside though; like losing the runflats being the most obvious first move...

Here's that fella in Atlanta:

http://www.puresportscar.com

I'm registered in this fourm as well. There are at least a couple MINI guys over there...

I'm actually looking at the Pontiac Solstice as well - much less money, and a butt-load of upside with the Ecotec engine (it's a heavier ride, so it would require some added power). Besides having some nice lines, the chassis is impressive, RWD, and has nearly a perfect front/rear weight distribution. Here's a comparable link:

http://www.solsticeforum.com/photopo...ex.php?cat=504

 

What really sets the car apart is the extruded aluminum chassis and composite body. Other than the name, that's what you're really paying for. No matter which way you slice it, stamped-steel unibody construction exists for one reason--it's cheap. And that's one more thing that highlights the MINI's similarity with every other anycar. My MINI is a hoot to drive, but I know a real car, a car that is a cut above, when I see one.

 

Life is too short to drive boring cars.

 

When I first saw photos of the Elise's chassis, I too was sold! It truly is the foundation from which all starts, and possibilities are built...

I found this article sometime ago that talks a bit about the platforms in a few of today's (and tomorrow's) new cars. I was actually looking for some more good meat on the Elise, and that's where I heard about the Solstice chassis being nothing but normal. There are other such articles that have convinced me that this car might very well have something special going-on...

http://www.aerospacestandards.com/au...1-112-3-10.pdf

Since the 2.4 has relative gobs of torque, and GM is getting 1,000 hp out of them in their performance testing (low compression ratios allow for considerable tuning possibilities - something I hear mentioned on the Elise forums as a limiting factor with their high compression), I'm sure the aftermkt will be full of options, and 250-300hp should not be an issue. And given the cars weight (100 lbs heavier than an MCS, ouch), more power is the ticket to get down to a 10:1 weight to hp ratio, or most likely better. Getting the car below 2,700 lbs might be possible though...

I'm following both cars very carefully as I want a summer convertible with RWD. While I like the fact that the Elise comes ready to go, I know that I'd be paying for that. The Stolstice ventures into the unknown, and it could be another Fiero flop by GM. It seems not to be so, but since I wouldn't be getting one until a year after released, I would have a better feel by then, plus the 6-speed should be available by that time .

 

Good points, but my problems with the Solstice are its size and weight. What Lotus has in the Elise is something extremely rare any more for the US market--low mass and a too-small-for-comfort form factor. True sports cars need to be both small and light. I find the MINI deceptively large. With the rise of the SUV, even small cars got big and bulky. Mid-sized cars even got bulkier. Notice the bulk of the new Mustang compared to a '66. Cars marketed in the US are designed for comfort. If you have to crawl out of it and are going to look like a jackass doing so, your average big-gulp, fat American isn't going to be interested. To this fat American, what I see as the proper size of the Elise is just an indicator of the fact that it's a driver's car and that the fact that I'm diabetes-waiting-to-happen is a flaw with me, not the car. If Eurotrash can drive it, so can I.

That being said, I think the Solstice is definitely a departure for GM, but I think they'll end up losing like they did on the Fiero.

 

I hear ya, and agree with everything, minus the fate of the Solstice - maybe just wishful thinking on my part though...

At only 140 or so pounds, I'm cool with the Elise for sure. It's hard to say where I'll go, and if its with the Solstice, it will be only after I see it's a winner, and the aftermkt can put the car where I want it to be...

 

I talked with a Pantera owner today. I was in a market for a pre-L a few years ago. Those cars are a lot of fun. The drawback is, again, weight--about 3000lbs. The suspension design is pretty good for that era, and having a ZF transaxle mated to inexpensive American iron is a nice combo. Another think I dislike is the unit construction and metal body.

I'd probably still rather have the Lotus.

 

not to mention that the earliest europa's were plagued,not with broken windshields,but with windshields that fell out in your lap at anything over 60 mph

 

The fiberglass work on those old Lotuses was substandard. I remember seeing several Europa's back in the mid eighties on which the engine cover lids had changed shape and didn't fit properly. It's as if Lotus had not accounted for the shrinkage that can occur after several years.

 

I saw an Elise yesterday - Nightfall Blue, had distributor plates from Georgia, so it was a Lotus USA owned car. Still, rollilng down the road, it looks AWESOME!

I had to then go change my pants, right after I came down from my afterglow, that is.

 

So I guess the lead time for getting one is tremendous--12 months or more. I sent off for brochures.

I've been pondering the logistics of dumping the MINI. I would need to do it soon, before the next winter, so I could get decent change for the sale. I would then buy a cheap, used Toyota or something for which I could pay cash. We'll see.

I was considering a similar approach back when I wanted to get a Pantera. But the difference is that I'd be spending @$25K for a car that would need to be stripped and have several thousand dollars worth of work done--rockers cut and replaced, upper rear stress cracks managed, etc. It would then live on jackstands for months or possibly a year or two before I could get it roadworthy. The beauty there would be that there is no warranty to worry about. But I'd be down about not having that Lotus light weight, second-to-none handling, aluminum frame, and composite body.

 

When I was leaving for Dental School in 1969, I put a deposit on Lotus Europa. Renault Gordini engine, Bright yellow. Total cost $3900. When my mother saw it, and realized that you raised the windows by pulling on a strap sticking out of the door, she made me cancel it. So I put a deposit on a Bultaco Metralla racing bike. But when she saw it, she made me get an, ughhh, Triumph Spifire. When I picked it up, there was a Tr4 next to it, and she said - "I like that one better - you should have gotten one of those!" Could have killed her! Hey, she's 88 now and still around. Maybe I'll drive the new Mini to her house and give her a good slap!


Naw, I'll just take her for a ride by the Lotus dealer........