On my way to work, I tried to leave shall we say spiritedly from a stop light making a left turn. Revs were ok, not bogged, but the whole way through the turn, the car ran flat. Would not speed up, no acceleration . I kept my foot in it of course. When the car straightened up, the car took off like a champ. I've never experienced a car that giving it more gas had no additional rpm response.

I was wondering, is this possibly DSC working? Will DSC hold revs down until traction is ok? If so, fine, I can switch that rascal off. But kind of a weird problem if that's not right. If this IS how DSC works, I don't suppose you autocrossers ever use it.

 

Two questions

1. Did it feel like your wheels were starting to slip?

2. Was your AC on?

 

I think it was, and no I don't think they do...

 

Biggripper,

1) Yes, probably a situation where I would expect the wheels would start to slip. Didn't feel any though.

2) AC was not on.

I knew I had DSC, but I've been too gentle on this car thus far, so I guess I may be learning how it reacts. If DSC does work to this level, I can see the safety in it, but it takes a lot of the driver out of the process (sometimes not a bad thing). But if your trying to get out of the way of a train coming, you may soil yourself as your car is not accelerating.

With this happening for the first time, I wanted to try to determine that this is normal, and not something else. Thanks.

 

I’m not sure of others, but I do not use the DSC when I auto-x and yes it will bog you down so to speak.

Was your DSC light on or off when this happened? If the light was off then the DSC was ON. The light must be on for the DSC to be disengaged.

 

Well, you could try that kind of manuever again (in safe conditions) with DSC off, and see what happens. From what I've read, unless you are going to be driving in some form of wet, potentially slippery conditions, it's considered a good idea to leave DSC off. (Makes me wonder about loose gravel driving conditions. Anyone know on that one?)

I've also heard that one of the later software upgrades toned down the aggresiveness of the DSC mode. If you have an older model, without any software upgrades, that's something to consider. There are a couple of pretty good threads on DSC related issues, and they are easier to find than threads on some other issues. (I think it's pretty funny what I get with some of my searches here, but also always extra enlightening. :smile: )

 

Thanks folks.

DSC was engaged, as I had not turned it off.

And I'll try a few practices turns along the way with and without DSC so I know how differently it reacts. This car is a April/04 build, so software should be current.

Also, I'll do a search on past threads on DSC stuff. Just a different feeling when it happens the first time, but I guess that's true for everything.

 

In my experience, the DSC light is on (steady light) with the system turned off. The light flashes when DSC is on and it engages. When you made the turn did you see the light flash. In slippery snow and ice I have seen this happen. :smile:

 

Good point on flashing light. No I didn't notice that, but then again in a fast turn, I'm looking at other stuff . But that would help if I come across this again.

 

Since your "event" occured when taking off from a dead stop, my guess is that what you experienced was the traction control (ATC) kicking in and not actually the dynamic stability control (DSC). It's hard for most folks to keep the two systems separate...mostly because traction control is actually integrated into the DSC system on DSC-equipped MINIs. While DSC is an option, ATC is standard on all US-market MINIs. You can turn BOTH off by turning off the DSC switch in a DSC-equipped car -- an action which is commonly known as "turning off the DSC" (but in fact turns off both ATC and DSC).

The only reason why this is technically important is in relation to your "getting away from an oncoming train" example. Yes, the MINI's traction control can be a bit aggressive and can cause some disconcerting moments while pulling out into traffic (or I suppose in escaping oncoming locomotives...). You'll find that there are a number of factors involved here -- tires, revs, road surface, model year of your car (early cars had DME software that had very aggressive ATC...this was tamed in later updates). Some MINI owners simplify matters by simply turning off the DSC switch and bagging all ATC and DSC function.

This can be problematic though for those occasions when you actually want DSC. These would mostly be those situations where you are moving (yes, moving...not launching from a stop) on unexpectedly slippery surfaces or have to execute an unexpected advoidance manuever at relatively high speeds. This is when DSC - NOT traction control - kicks in and can save your butt. Other than when autocrossing or track driving, you don't actually know when you might encounter conditions that would cause DSC to kick in (that's the definition of "unexpected" I suppose)...so therefore, I leave it on and let DSC perform its butt-saving function when the unexpected occasion arises. That's what I paid for after all....and I am not too proud to admit that in 99% of emergencies, a computer can probably drive better than I can.

 

Jsun,

That is an excellent point, I don't know why I hadn't even thought of that. Now that you mention it, that makes a lot more sense in my situation. I was mixing traction control and DSC together.

Your point may actually answer another question I had but had never asked. When I took my test drive, and I've done this only once or twice in my own car, but under hard accelleration, and shifting into second or third, there is a dead spot or pause immediately after you shift, but then everything is strong after that. Because it was identical in both cars, I figured it was just normal for the Mini. But that could also be a function of traction control making sure everything is connected before accelerating hard again. I've never turned DSC or ATC off, so it could have played a factor both times. And yes, I suppose these items could help save us when needed.

I'm still learning this car I suppose. I don't mind if the system works that way, at least we have the option to have it or not. Thanks.

 

ATC vs. DSC

For cars without the DSC option, how does one turn off the ATC? Or are you stuck with it on all the time?

 

Actually, after reading the manual, I see that the traction control system is called "ASC+T" which stands for Automatic Stability Control Plus Traction. It's mostly as I described it...traction control that impacts RPM (reducing engine speed) and the front brakes (applying them) in the event of a lost of traction.

The manual says that there's a switch to turn it off labled "ASC".

Oh, and apparently it's possible to get a Cooper with neither ASC+T or DSC. DSC is an option on Coopers as on MCSs. The MCS has to come with one or the other (neither is NOT an option). So, it you have a Cooper and don't have DSC, then you also don't have ASC+T.

Confused yet?

 

jsun is correct. this is a common problem when trying to give too much power from a stop and turning. The inside wheel lifts a little and starts to spin, the ASC+T detects this and reduces engine torque, because the driver didn't. If you disable DSC, you also disable ASC_T with it. You, then, left with just ABS and EBD since they cannot be disabled.

if you know ahead of time that you will not ever loose control of you vehicle then disable DSC and you might as well cancle your insurance and get rid of run-flats and repair kits. But if you are like most people, you carry insurance and run-flats or repair kits bcause you can't tell that something will go wrong. The same is true with DSC. You won't use it (hopefully) ever, but if you ever do, you'll be glad you weren't the one who disables it every time they start the car.

 

Remember,dynamic means the car is in motion forwards and left and right.Don't think up,down play into it.If you push the car in too many directions at once,the cumpucker takes over,if it is turned on

 

I find that I can control the car better with the ATC on in the snow,I got used to it helping me plow through drifts.Nothing like snow flying over the Bonnet,from the road

 

As a matter of fact, I got rid of the run-flats (Falken Azenis Sports rule!), and purchased one of Ian Cull's excellent "Mini-Circuits" with "Track Mode DSC" which disables the DSC every time you start the car. Lovin' every minute of it, BTW.

However, on a very rainy day, or when the summer's over, I'll go back to "normal". I've been driving front-wheel drive cars (and autocrossing off & on) for 25+ years, and I just find the DSC's action in just this situation more disconcerting than the consequences, at least in the dry - just my tastes. If there was a switch for ABS, I *wouldn't* turn that off... BTW, the DSC on my Aug '03 MCS (v36) cuts in before there's any wheel lifting or spinning - seems like it won't even allow a chirp. That said, DSC is a great safety net for not-so-great road conditions, and I'd definitely recommend leaving it on in heavy rain or snow.

Re. the run-flats, I know it's probably BMW's only choice without a spare, but with the Falkens I have no qualms about driving virtually anywhere (in the summer) with just a can of fix-a-flat (and AAA) for a safety net. Just keep an eye on your tire pressure & you too can go 30+ years with exactly two flat tires (Can't miss every nasty pothole in New England & Buffalo).

YMMV

 

Driving in snow is the one situation where I pretty much always turn off traction control (and therefore, also DSC). Even the manual tells you to do this.

By "driving in snow" I don't mean interstate driving when there's falling snow -- there I leave it on for the safety measure afforded by DSC -- but I'm talking about driving on side streets and my (1/4 mile long and hilly) driveway. Here, you actually want some wheel spin so as to be able to dig yourself down to dry(er) pavement and get traction. Of course, I have good snowtires, so even this is seldom a problem...but someday try starting on a snow-covered hill with traction control enabled, and you'll know what I mean.