Hey everyone! I've been driving stick for little over a month now. For the first couple of weeks it was a 2014 WRX, downgraded to a 2010 MCS to save fuel costs.

I understand everyone has their opinions on the best method of downshifting. Something I read from the Subaru forums is to

"clutch in
select neutral
clutch out
blip throttle
clutch in select lower gear
clutch out."

This method revs the engine and input shaft thus less stress when engaging the lower gears and synchros doesn't have to do anything.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

F56...

(too soon?)

Really, that's how I drive my old Alfa... it becomes habit after some practice...

 

That's what I figured, my coworker does the other method which involves double clutching. Or however it goes hah

 

Hmm the way the OP is describing is double-clutching isn't it? I tap the gas a hair on the downshifts to help rev match. Its smoother

 

Looks like it. So clutch in,rev,shift to lower gear, clutch out?

 

thats what i do to down shift

 

Ideally you'd blip the throttle while you're shifting into a lower gear as opposed to doing one then the other, assuming you want to do it quickly.

 

Yes. What the OP described is double clutching. It is not necessary, and probably just wears your clutch or throw-out bearing out twice as fast.

Double clutching is only required if your manual transmission is not synchronized (when was the last time you could buy one of those in a retail automobile? 1940?) It might be required if you have driven like an idiot, abused your transmission, and the sychros have failed. It might explain why the idea was presented in a Subaru forum, but more likely it's just a bunch of droopy pants-wearin', sideways hat-sportin' 16 year olds thinking they're being cool, but really have no clue what they are doing.

Double clutching is trying to get the transmission's input and output shafts rotating at the same speed so you can engage the next gear (again... not required with a synchromesh transmission).

Rev-matching is trying to get the engine's flywheel and the transmission's input shaft (and clutch) rotating at the same speed to prevent slipping the clutch when down-shifting --something pretty hard on MINI's famously paper-thin clutches.

 

Yep, that's double-clutching. Completely unnecessary. Clutch in, blip throttle to bring revs up while changing down, clutch out. Takes a while to get the rhythm and to know what the correct amount of throttle blip is but keep at it and you'll get there.

 

ive never understood this (double clutching)......why shift to neutral and clutch out?....

why not

clutch in
shift to gear while blipping throttle
clutch out

even on an older car w/out syncros, where most people claim double clutching is necessary, i dont see why you would need to.....?

 

Repeating what trwxxa said, double-clutching is unnecessary in a synchromesh transmission. Downshifting is an art and just requires practice, the goal being to get as smooth as possible, making it seamless. Then, on to "heel-&-toe", which adds braking while downshifting. Just keep in mind the old addage "Brakes are a whole lot less expensive than transmissions", meaning: Don't use your transmission and engine to slow the car down.

 

"Brakes are a whole lot less expensive than transmissions", meaning: Don't use your transmission and engine to slow the car down.


+1 to this. Brakes also are a whole lot less expensive than clutch kits and the labor required to replace a burned-out clutch.


That said, I do downshift using the rev-matching technique I outlined in my response, above. But listen, I'm 71 years old and thus have been driving for a very long time, all the while downshifting. It took me a while to find the rhythm in my R55. It does in any car. So I would urge the OP to keep at it, don't give up, but try to be as gentle on the equipment as possible.


One more thing: Someone mentioned heel-and-toe technique, whereby the toe of the right foot modulates the brake pedal and the heel of the right foot blips the throttle - this while the left foot dances on the clutch pedal. That is the classic definition of the technique. But this is different for everyone and different in every car. It depends upon the size of one's foot, and also the distance and placement of the pedals in the car involved. For me, in my car, when I do it (I don't always), I use what the racers call ball-and-ball - left side of the right foot on the brake pedal, right side of the right foot angled over to blip the throttle. But mostly I find that the pedal placement in my car does not work well for me so I mostly just brake a little early and get completely off the brake to accomplish the downshift.


Jeeze, does this make any sense at all? It's early here and I've just kinda started my second cup of coffee, which is required to complete the awakening process....

 

Here is why you might want to do it:

The input shaft and output shaft are still coupled together any time the gear shift lever is selecting a gear. No matter if the clutch is pressed or not--the clutch simply decouples the flywheel from the input shaft.

If you select neutral, the input and output shafts are decoupled. Then let the clutch out to hook the input shaft to the flywheel, speeding up the input shaft to whatever RPM the flywheel is spinning. Then you push the clutch in, and the input shaft keeps turning with its own momentum, and you select the next gear. If you do it right, the input shaft (spinning on momentum) and the output shaft (being turned by the wheels) will be turning at close to the same speed, and they'll mesh with no fuss and with minimal need to change the speed of either shaft.


Why it just about doesn't matter with a modern transmission:

Modern synchro mechanisms are robust enough to get the two shafts to match speeds with practically zero wear. So even though you will have a mis-match in shaft speeds, the bits inside the transmission will get them to match very quickly and with no real fuss.



I personally do double-clutch my downshifts. It's a habit from an older car of mine, and if I do it well I am not really hurting anything. I might even be saving a really miniscule amount of wear on the transmission--but probably not enough to notice.

 

If you're real good you can downshift or upshift for that matter w/o the clutch. Only use the clutch to get it out of gear and then rev match as required to make the shift. At 75 years young I've been doing it for years in all the manuals I've owned. I will admit I did knock the 2nd gear syncro out of the 85 S-10 Blazer I bought new in 85 before I caught on to how to do it. My 2013 JCW Hardtop is the easiest one of all to do it, although I don't do it all the time. Just to impress my friends lol. Speaking of syncros did you know that in both my 2012, and 2013 MINI manuals you can put the trans into reverse with the car moving forward with no problem. Discovered this when coming in my driveway real slow and needed to back up to square the car up going in the garage. Put it in reverse whilst still going forward. Don't understand the mechanics of that but it's cool!

 

I know it's not a MINI, in fact it probably the exact opposite, but my Dad drives tractor trailers for a living and I believe that you still double clutch them (at least some of them) unless you match the RPMs correctly which then you can shift into gear without clutching (as 1guru2 mentioned), which he does a lot.

I've never been able to heal and toe correctly, maybe I wear the wrong kinds of shoes.

 

Thanks guys! Looks like I have a bit of practicing to do. Doesn't look hard at all, just takes time like anything else.