So, I'm kicking around some ideas for possible changes to my MINI (R56 Justa) and have looked at adding forced induction to my N12; to be blunt it looks like it's not worth the cost to bother with it. My quick list tells me I'd need to fabricate a turbo setup (easy), replace engine management (not easy, but doable), figure out the CANbus protocols to make it all talk and integrate, and at the end of that have... 175-180 wheel HP and a stressed engine.

Am I wrong here? Looking at all of that it seems like a K20 with a header/intake/tune and its accompanying 6 speed would be a much more effective method to get similar power, while ending up with a much more reliable engine (my N12 has been well behaved so far, but they definitely aren't Honda K series reliable...). I know it'll physically fit in the bay and making the gauges function isn't terribly difficult (either translate CANbus or just double up sensors/triggers on the K series to make the MINI ECU think the N12 is still there). Custom engine mounts (very easy), A/C integration (pretty easy) and custom half shafts (easy, though a little pricey) and the rest is detail work, really. If all else fails, I could use a ProEFI system like my other car has to "piggyback" between the engine and MINI ECU.

Anyone done anything like this before?

As a point of reference, I've built/worked on ~20 engine swaps, including an RB25DETT S13, single/twin turbo LS1 RX7s (2nd and 3rd gen, something like 15 of these between N/A and turbo setups), Honda swaps (they're lego cars), WRX, etc. I currently have an 800+ RWHP turbo LS1/RX7 as my fun car, so please don't cast me off as someone with no idea what's going on with the complexities of this. :P

 

I am highly interested in your idea of a K20 swap into a newer MINI! i know there are kits out there for swapping Honda engines into the old ones, but never found anything about doing it to a new one. if you do proceed with that plan, please keep this updated!!!

 

Hope someone chimes in, good luck!

 

My honest answer... with enough money and time... anything is really possible. This would be pretty cool to see though. Hope you do it.

 

Good luck....
My only question....
If you are willing to invest that much time and effort to do a motor swap...it is only getting done cause you can....obviously it would be cheaper to sell the car and buy what you want....a different car...mini or not. Have fun.

 

Not worth the price that it would cost to do either. Like Zippy said sell it an get something else or maybe an S or JCW.

 

The S/JCW don't exactly have stellar engine reliability either. Beyond that, I already own this one, I don't see any reason to get a note on another car for an increase of 50 HP. Besides, the K series motors have a whole lot more potential; I've worked on a friend's stock block swapped EG hatch with 450 wheel HP, 33 mpg and at least 5 years of reliability that way. Not that I really see any reason to make that kind of power in this car, but it's nice to know I -can-. Is it possible to do that with an N14?

From what I've seen, I can get 1500+ out of my healthy N12 and 6 speed, that's the cost of a used K20 + 6 speed, or very nearly so. Assuming I can get by with stock engine management, it's only another 1500 or so out of pocket to get the major stuff done. Besides, a stock JCW would still be down 30+ HP on a mildly modded K20.

The only real catch on this is I need to pick up a cheap beater car to drive while I complete the swap. My spare car (the RX7) isn't exactly something you drive in inclement weather, haha.

 

Normally I would disregard BS posts like this, but you seen to have a good idea of the reality of the situation.


The hardest part is going to be the engine management. Running the stock MINI DME? I don't see that working very well at all, but all power to you to figure that one out.

 

I have been dreaming of a B or K swap since I got the Mini. It will take a complete failure though before I attempt that project. Maybe when my son is older, would be a great learning experience.

 

Hah, oh lord no, not the stock MINI DME, the stock Honda ECU (likely + Hondata). I'm not a huge fan of BMW's engine management in most of their vehicles I've owned (I've had a few). It's functional but a little bit lacking in both feature set and tunability.

My thought on the stock MINI DME however is to mimic cam/crank signal and sensors so that it doesn't realize the N12 is gone, and can function in a "normal" capacity. We do that on RX8 swaps to keep the stock (heavily integrated) ECU happy. I'm not sure how much of a PITA it will be to mimic ca readings though, seems like it might be easier to deal with integration in another manner.

 

this sounds awesome for one. for two, you are def not the only one to consider this! i was a little peaved that my buddy who dropped a B16 honda motor into a 90s integra, with minor mods (like headers, cai) and a basic tune, was able to keep up with me during a quick drag race up the road. i only won by half a car length? wtf is up with that! (granted i didnt hook at all, but still).

so, ya, if you can get a (boosted?!) honda motor into a mini DO IT! those motors do seem to have more power, parts are cheap *** to upgrade the **** out of them, and of course its easier to work on.

then i would personally just ditch all the stock gauges, ect, and use a supersquirt or similar AM ECU and just run a big touchscreen with all the engine data. seems like this project could be the best of both worlds, bc lets face it, honda did not spend much money in their aesthetics dept when developing their cars! :P but minis look and handle awesome, but were stuck with questionable engines...

DOOOO IIIITTTT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

my question is: Why Not?

clearly you have abundent spare time :D

 

Yeah, I've had a few friends ask "why not buy a Honda". Well, honestly they haven't made anything I like in the past 10-15 years. I'm very happy with the MINI overall, I'd just love to have about 2x the power and some additional reliability.

I'd really like to keep the stock gauges; I'm a big fan of engine swaps that retain 100% functionality. On my RX7 swaps we retrofit other speedometers into the stock cluster to function with the V8 engine while looking/acting factory. Those small touches are what set apart a well done engine swap. I want someone who is unfamiliar with the car to get in, turn the key and drive away without having any idea that the car did not come that way.

Also, ASSuming I go anywhere with this, I do not plan on boosting the K motor any time soon. I might in the future, but there are enough variables with just the basic swap to preclude adding additional complexities with a turbo and it's related plumbing, fuel and temperature issues.

 

My first thought would be why mess with a K20 when you could use a K24 but the K24 is probably too tall to fit in the engine bay of the mini. I think you're going to get nailed by the BMW DME and it's going to be awfully tough to get everything working with a K-series in the car. You're going to have so many non-functional electric stuff that you might as well gut the car and turn it into a race car.

It's going to be a tough road. The motor swaps you have experience with in the past seem to be fairly well documented swaps on older cars with simpler electrical systems.

But hey... you'd be the first in the country (likely world) with a k-series mini

EDIT: Just sell the R56 for an R53 and mod that. They're much easier to make power with.

 

If anything I might get another MINI with a junk engine, develop the swap in that, then either sell mine or flip/flop drivetrains and flip the other one with my stock N12 in it.

CANbus isn't really that bad; ProEFI has already documented integration with the BMW systems. Is the MINI system dramatically different for some reason?

 

if i had time / money i would try a vr6 mostly likly the 2.8.

although the 2nd gen im sure has more room in the engine bay

 

Normally, I'd be in the "You're out of your mind" camp, but upon a second reading, I like the cut of your jib. Count my vote as YES to the motor swap.

 

Yes to the motor swap from me as well. The Honda K-series is a fantastic engine. I too have considered this swap for a long time. I think it would be a great swap. If you end up doing this I would love to chat with you about it more thoroughly. Keep it up

 

As long as I'm spending your money, time, and frustration, I say GO FOR IT!

It should be a cool swap. There are lots of recipes out there for high-powered Honda motors with decent or better reliability. As long as you can get all of the electronic issues sorted, the rest is just fabricating the mounts and getting "interface" parts (e.g., drive axles, plugs, coolant/oil/fuel hoses, etc.) so the different bits play well with each other.

Sounds like a cool project for someone who knows what the heck they're doing! (And that is not me, particularly in this instance!)

 

Hah, thanks guys, I appreciate it. I'm pretty well versed in swaps, but I'm also used to seeing all the dreamers with no clue, haha.

I'm just researching now, and keeping my eyes open for a drivetrain. Need to get my RX7 put back together with its new setup for the spring before I tear apart another car or the wife will have my hide. :P

 

There was a guy in England a fee years ago that swapped a VW 2l into a first gen. Might want to look into what he did for ideas.

Sent from me being awesome around my MINI!!

 

Not a bad idea, but what about more old school. Forget the computer crap, go multi-carb, maybe even motor cycle engine. Will it be a Honda, only if it's a cycle engine. I agree we all like the looks, but computers have screwed this car and german engineering.

 

I'm a network engineer who went to school for electrical and computer engineering. I have done my own stand alone engine tuning for the last 5 years. I like the computer crap, haha.

 

I had a 600CC Honda CBR for a few years. It made around 105-110HP... Not much less than my 1.6L Justa.

 

Yea, I'm a controls engineer, but you know, nothing like a good set of carbs. Something to tune (synch) and never get right.