I want to start this so everybody involved with the BlackHawk Farms D.E. last Monday can share pictures...

These are courtesy of Lotus Corp:

Hi All,

Thanks to Zig Gluszek and Lori Brown, we have a bunch of pictures taken at
the track event May 17th at Blackhawk Farms. Larger versions of the pictures
are available, contact me.

Lori's pics are posted URL=http://home.earthlink.net/~lotuscorps/Blackhawk2004_page_01.htm]Here[/URL]

Zig's pics are posted Here

 

Nice Pics. Looks like it was a fun day.

Worth moving to Chitown!

Where are all of the Elans?

 

Wow. There were some very nice pictures there. I was especially proud of the two pics (1, 2) of me passing two different Red Esprits on the front straight. The picture of me in the runoff is kind of sad though. Ouch!

 

i was in one of those esprits. i want to put those pictures into context.
first, it was not a race, it was a track day. in order to make a legit overtaking move, you are to be pointed by. notice no one is pointing.

second, what you don't see is just off the screen there was a green tr-6 holding EVERYONE up. the head instructor was in my car during this session, and i am quite sure that we discussed the situation. rather than jeapordise the grid, and my car, i was told to pit in and wait for clear track. this is what you should have done.

it is people like you that can't seem to understand that safety is the most important thing during these events. you need to thank burt leavy for calming me down, because i was ready to bend your teeth for you. you deserved to end up in the runoff.

if you need to post "kill shots" for your ego, fine, but you need to make sure that no one who was really there finds out about them.

 

.

 

Wow. I never saw this when it was originally posted, and I'm guessing the poster will probably never see my reply. I'm kind of shocked by it. I've participated in a half-dozen track days in the last two years, and I helped instruct during the East Meets West event this year at Blackhawk. I feel comfortable in saying that I have NEVER had anyone respond negatively to my ethics on the track, nor have I ever passed someone without being pointed by when driving in novice or intermediate groupings.

I honestly don't recall the particulars of either one of these two pictures, so I can't really respond to the accusations, though I would like to point out a few things. First, a "point-by" often lasts only a second or two, and is just about always BEFORE a passing is underway, not DURING a pass. In both of these photos, the pass is clearly well underway, and it wouldn't be logical for the driver being passed to still be pointing. Furthermore, both of these instances are only a few hundred yards onto the straight, before the "finish line" and therefore the pass would be finished well before Turn 1. Also, pit lane is visible in both pictures on the left. If you were going to pit in to clear the track, then why are you nowhere near pit lane? Both of these passes look perfectly reasonable to me, and I can't help but wonder if you've got me confused with one of the other MCS drivers who was there that day.

As far as my posting "kill shots" for my ego, did you not notice that I posted my runoff shot right next to them?? Oh wait, you did. You told me that I belonged there. How nice.

I do want to apologize to anyone that I might have put in jeopardy by any sort of unsafe driving that I exhibited on that day or any other track days for that matter. However, I think that it is imperative in these situations that unsafe or even just questionable driving be reported to the event sponsors/instructors so that the parties involved can be made aware. If bad passes or other unsafe driving occurs on the track, but the driver never finds out about it, the problem will never be solved and could result in a serious accident down the road.

 

Chitown_COOP

I've participated in 2 Audi Driver Education days at Blackhawk and 1 "parade" experience at a vintage meet.

In all 3 of those we were instructed to only pass on the left side of the front straight -- or the other 2 short straights for that matter. I guess the thinking was that in case someone dove into the pits at the last second, they wouldn't be crossing over in front of you.

Is there a reason why it was different at this event?

Also, how well do stock front brakes hold up at Blackhawk after a day of lapping?

Respectfully,
HunterBoss

 

WOW we need a mega dose of chill in here, i thought the humor was blatantly apparent in the first post. Otherwise the pics are great, I cant wait to get on the track

 

First off, this wasn't really an Audi event. There was heavy participation from a bunch of Audis, and several of the instructors were Audi guys, but they were all left over from an event on the previous day if I recall correctly--in other words, they weren't setting the rules.

I've had passing both ways at Blackhawk. There are two schools of thought on passing at driver education events like this. One school says that the person passing should be the one to come off of "the line." In other words, since the best line on all of the straights is out to the left, then the passer should be going out of his way to get around, the person being passed should stick to the line and just lift off the gas.

The other school of thought is that a person being passed should signal AND move over to the inside--thus making it easier for the passer and also making it abundantly clear that he expects to be passed.

I personally prefer the first school of thought, since it causes more predictable driving: everyone is sticking to the line except those passing. You have a valid point about a last minute "pit dive." But the rules are that on the final turn (preceding the front straight), if you're going to pit, then your fist should already be up in the air, and you'll stick like glue to that right turn, dumping you straight into the pit lane. I would hope that people aren't ever diving out from the far left to pit, but I suppose that it's happened.

Brakes? Blackhawk is extremely hard on brakes. The straights are so short that they never have a chance to cool off. Your stocks will be toast after a full day of driving there. If you don't want to spend the money on Ferrodos, might as well just get a cheap set of Mintex red boxes to burn off during the day. I highly recommend picking up a set of Ferrodos for the front, at least. They'll last you through maybe 6 full track days and they'll make stopping a whole lot easier and more predictable, which will allow you to get a lot faster on the track!

Post something on here if you ever do head out to Blackhawk or anywhere else in the Chicago neighborhood. Maybe a few of us will meet up with you there!

 

Chitown_COOP

Thanks. Forgot about the fist rule.

After I've gotten one, the first thing I want to do after the break in period is over is head to Blackhawk in an organized track day!

Thanks for the heads up on the "track" pads. My first driving day at Blackhack was in a stock Audi 90 with stock pads and the air temperature was around 100! Literally! I actually exploded my left front pad going into Turn 1. Made for an interesting in lap, I can tell you.

Are the pads easy to change?

And were you saying that Ferodos will last at the track and still be good for the street?

HunterBoss

 

The pads are very doable. Fronts are an absolute breeze. You could literally change both sides in under 30 minutes. The rears tend to be more interesting, but it seems that some people's are easier than others--it all depends on how readily your piston will retract...but we can get into that elsewhere. Personally, I've got Ferrodos on all four corners, but I wouldn't buy the rears again. There's just not much point to it for reasonably limited track day driving.

Ferrodos 2500s will work on the street. They're on mine right now, and I haven't been anywhere near a track since July. They tend to get squeaky more quickly than stocks, and they're noticably less grabby when cold. But they'd be fine if you're lazy like me and don't get around to changing your pads back sometimes. I'll be putting the snow tires on in the next week or so, so I'll be putting my Mintex "red boxes" on (way cheaper than stock--especially if you can find them on sale!).

I'm casually working on organizing a track day at Gingerman up in Michigan for some time next spring. I'll keep everyone in the loop!