The Kuhmo Ecsta tires on the GP2 look beefier than their size 205/45x17 would suggest ... especially the rear rubber. They look beautiful! My GP1 run 205/40x18s. I'd like to give it the same "beefy" look. What size rubber would be best for rears? Is it wise to run different sizes front and rear? Thanks everyone.

 

The MINI is front wheel drive, don't put wider wheels/tires than OEM on the rear axle unless you are going for looks alone and worse performance.

If you are going for a certain look, then do whatever you want.

Is it possible to run different sizes of tires or wheels on the fronts and backs?
Yes it is possible but unless you are highly skilled at driving, it's not a good idea. If you ever did get into an accident it would be very easy for the police to see that the tires you have are mismatched, if you were not at fault you could be at risk for being at least partly to blame from a lawyer's viewpoint.

What is best for the rear is the same as what is best for the fronts.
Find a wheel and tire that fits your suspension and your needs when you drive.

The answer is different for every owner. What are your priorities?

 

I did not know that "the law" forbade (or regarded as illegal) wheels of different sizes front and rear. I recall that many tuners like Alpina, Schnitzer, and Hartge sold wheel setups that used larger tires in the rear. Of course BMW are RWD vehicles unlike the MINI. Do you think going from a 205 to a 215 or 225 would be hazardous and constitute a legal breech? It's only 10 - 20mm. Your point about adverse handling does concern me as I would not want to diminish handling for looks. Do you think going w/ wider rubber all around - 215/40 versus original 205/40 would be am good setup?

Thanks

 

When trying to maximize handling on a MINI you are trying to minimize the natural under steer. If you went with more grip in the rear you would exaggerate under steer. Some have gone with larger fronts to help offset this but then you have to look at clearance and rubbing. If you want to handle better you need to consider options that will increase front grip such as increasing camber up front with camber plates. Then you can go with a larger rear sway bar which will help the car rotate a bit. With same size tires all the way around, camber plates and a larger adjustable RSB you can really make the MINI handle even better. I run Ireland Engineering fixed camber plates with a 22mm rear sway bar and 215's on all 4's and can get mine to over steer when I want. I can get on the throttle much sooner in a turn which was my goal.

 

Man, Minihune, you are a repository of great advise! What you state makes sense, although it's hard to imagine a FWD car fishtailing with oversteer, but I'm sure it's a great experience. Camber plates and RSB will be added to my shopping list. Hopefully Santa has a similar setup on his sleigh and may decide to stuff these upgrades in my stockings!

It appears that running 215 all around would be okay and not cause any rubbing up front. At the moment my focus is actually on winter tires, namely 195/55x16 of 16x7 wheels. I've never had to concern myself with winter tires as I am from SoCal, but now living in the northeast and not liking it.

Mahalo!

 

I'm from Arizona now living in North Carolina and have zero snow tire experience. Some of my suspension recommendations may hurt handling on ice and snow. I have read about people up north changing their suspension settings come winter but I can't recall what they did. Hopefully someone will read this and give some winter advice.

BTW, when I say I got my car to rotate I sure never got it to fishtail!

 

Looks like you've spent a considerable amount on upgrading your MINI and are deriving vast improvement over stock. I'm quite satisfied with the way my car handles and performs, but I am interested in upgrading components nevertheless.

Porsches are notorious for fishtailing in competition. Don't know why I thought you were from Hawaii. Perhaps it was your name "minihune." It sounds like Big Kahune! Obviously, I'm wrong and offer my apology.

One thing I must mention is that there aren't many enthusiasts here in CT unlike CA and Las Vegas where they're all over the place. I think a big part of enjoying cars like MINI is finding the common thread we all share as MINI enthusiasts. Seems like it doesn't exist around here unlike NY and MA, for example.

 

Anybody know of anyone retrofitting Weber carbs on an R53 MINI?

 

I am not minihune but maybe he is from Hawaii. I have done a lot to mine but that was my goal was. I have really enjoyed upgrading mine and I have done all the work myself. MINI's really handle well so anything you do is just icing on the cake. Seems like I have seen some a few enthusiast from CT so with some effort you might be able to find them.

 

Sorry for the mixup, Swimbaxter.

Yeah, I would have to agree that MINIs are a special breed that cast a spell on those of us that are passionate about them. It's nearly an addiction!

IMO MINI is moving in the wrong direction design-wise. Since the R53s, MINIs have become less and less "mini" and more and more rotund -- prime candidates for "The Biggest Loser!" Gen1 cars were (and are) superior in nearly every dimension. The R56 and upcoming (arguably ludicrous looking) F series ostensibly violate Sir Alec's fundamental design philosophy and the MINI heritage. They should not be fat and they should not be general purpose vehicles -- the Clubman notwithstanding. Yes, MINIs can be practical cars, but what makes them distinctive is performance and handling above all else. They were and should continue to be enthusiast's car that are not necessarily "everymans" car. That's just my admittedly biased opinion.

 

You have to read the laws for the state that you are in. In my state if you choose to use tires that are mismatched, during safety inspection the station that is checking you can fail you and cite the mismatch which you have to correct.

A RWD sportscar and a MINI are totally different when it comes to upgrading wheels and tires. Many BMWs come with a staggered setup OEM, the rear wheels and tires are wider because those are the drive wheels.

In the MINI you want to optimize suspension to allow for as neutral steering as you can get relative to your driving skill level. To learn where you are at you would do well to get yourself to a good national driving school. An example of that would be the Evolution Driving School which is held across the country many times each year taught by national class instructors that have driven just about everything out there.

If you can appreciate that the MINI will understeer that is a good start and shows that you can carry enough speed into a turn. A driver with enough experience will know that a FWD car will tend to understeer and adjust corner entry speed to AVOID understeer or at least minimize it.

As for oversteer in a FWD car? I've done it twice, once on R compound tires with a rear swaybar setting that was a little too stiff, and once on the track with a little to sharp/ quick steering input that allowed the rear to loose traction leading to a spin that landed me off course and into a chainlink fence. This happened only once. I learned. I have also drifted my MINI on hard turns so you can pretty much to anything but it won't always be the fastest way around the course.

For winter wheels and tires that is a whole different ballgame. Pick wheels that will fit over your front brake calipers and look for winter tires that will meet the weather conditions you expect to drive in both daily and if going on a ski trip or mountain trip. More narrow width snow tires will cut through the snow better, not too much taller than OEM tire diameter of 24.3" for clearance.

As for the right width of the summer tire, you can go with any 205 to 235mm wide tire but there is always a compromise whether grip vs handling due to sidewall stiffness vs treadwear vs cost, etc. 205/45-17 is not equal to 215/40-17. If you want good street comfort and have bad roads, any 40 series sidewall is harder to live with on a daily basis. If you have a lowered suspension and you want to drop it more, 215/40-17 gives more clearance and may fit with less risk for rubbing. Wheel width is a factor for a given tire, you want a perfect fit when you can not just "A Fit". The tire will perform better when it is matched to the wheel width it was designed for.

If you need more information on winter tires check with Alex@tirerack.com.

And yes, while I live in Hawaii now, I have lived on the mainland for 12 years, 4 winters in Colorado driving, 5 winters in Chicago driving- never on snow tires, just cheap all season tires. I have 10+ years of SCCA events including autocross, track lapping, BMWCCA (5 days) and Evolution driving school (5 courses), Rallycross in FWD and AWD cars, etc. I've had my MINI since 2003 and it's doing well at 95,500+ miles, looks new.

And the kumho ecsta tires on the GP2 are NOT street tires, they are R compound track tires. They wear very fast and have good grip. They are appropriate for dedicated track use.

If you have a GP MINI, start with Extreme Summer tires for high grip and traction. See if you can find sizes that will fit your wheels or wheels you like.
Then check the treadwear rating and budget and see if that works. Ride quality will be a bit rough and sometimes noisy but it's all a tradeoff.

Wnat something to ride better on the street and have slightly longer treadlife in a range of prices? Look at Max Summer tires. Prices vary widely, check owner reviews and test results on Tirerack.com. It's not always easy to read between the lines but it is a good starting point.

Everyone has their own opinions based on their bias, you will have to either trust them or gain some experience by making your choice and seeing how it does. Tires wear out, then it's time to go shopping again.

You are lucky you have a capable MINI (no real need to upgrade the car when most of the time it is the driver that could use the tweaking).

 

Minihune,

You have once again exceeded my expectations with your helpful and comprehensive information based on know-how and personal experience both on and off the track.

Speaking of wheel width and perfect tire fit: What is the perfect wheel width for mounting a 195/15x16 winter tire? Tire Rack will give you a range of "acceptable" widths -- from 6 - 7.5. I'm sure it is not as critical for winter (low speed) driving, but nevertheless always better to maximize proper bead seating for any wheel/tire combination.

Is it true that all OEM MINI wheels will not clear JCW brakes on a GP? There's a set of 16s for sale listed on the NAM Marketplace that I am considering buying for snow tires.

As I understand, essentially any non-runflat tire will provide much better ride and handling than the stock fitment. How many miles would you estimate the Kuhmo Ecsta will last on the GP2? Of course, driving style will be a significant variable. I would imagine the wear rating is quite low for these tires to generate maximum adhesion and cornering performance.

Contrary to most, I am not enamored by the OEM GP wheel design. If funding were not a factor I'd store them to retain OEM profile and buy a replacement set of forged alloys that look more purposeful in the $400 - $500 per wheel range.

I think I will follow your advice regarding same size all around since it makes sense with a FWD car.

Thanks again for your excellent advice and sharing your insight based on experience.

Regards,
halid

 

PLEASE tell me you were drinking when you thought this one up....

 

Sure. But first PLEASE tell me what you were smoking when you replied.

 

When reading on the internet about people's opinions, just keep in mind that it's all unsubstantiated information. Crosscheck and do your homework and it will payoff with a well conceived execution of what you want in the budget that you set for yourself.

The perfect wheel for a winter tire is the one that is narrow and fits the tire size you want to use while clearing the front brakes. About 6" is fine.
Talk to Alex@tirerack.com for more info on winter setups.

To find a wheel that fits over the JCW brakes:
see
http://www.motoringfile.com/2005/03/...at_wheels_fit/
They list several OEM MINI wheels of various sizes that should fit OK.

Here is the Kumho tire on the GP2-
http://www.minigenuineparts.co.uk/mi...2_334_536.html
You can't even buy a replacement on tirerack because the Ecsta V700 is a really really old track tire that went out of fashion with the creation of much better R compound tires some years ago. Treadwear is 50, this means that it will wear out 4 times faster or worse than your better Extreme Summer tire which is usually rated about 200 and lasts about 10,000 miles or 12 months if you are really good on tires.

How fast R compound tires wear out when driven depends on your suspension, alignment, how you drive, what surfaces you drive on, how hard you brake, and how fast you drive (plus more). I would never drive R compound tires on the street if given a choice. Have I done it, yes, I drove Michelin Pilot Sport Cups on the street and it was fine but a waste. I know others that run R compounds on the street because they don't want to change wheels at the track. It can be very dangerous if the road is slick/wet.

Yes, moving to nonrunflats are likely to result in a much smoother ride quality for street use. But before you discard runflats as an option I am of the opinion that for some owners it offers a viable alternative, for safety reasons, good handling, with a trend for better ride comfort and more moderate pricing. In the early days they were expensive and stiff.

However you don't want to just buy any tire for your MINI. There are so many good ones to choose from you should do some shopping to see if you can get a set that suits your needs. A stock MINI really does well when outfitted with a good set of tires, it's day and night better, more fun to drive and works well. With some cars, good tires don't help it much, it's just overpaying for tires. Live and learn.

 

Looks exactly like the tires I saw on the GP2. How can such tires be responsibly fitted to a factory car given their very poor traction in wet conditions for year around use? They're just marginally more drivable (and safe) than full-bore racing slicks. I'm sure they grip like crazy glue and as you point out wear quickly.

Are you suggesting that current runflats are far superior to the original '06 GP versions? If so, I would be inclined to reconsider them when mine wear out. They obviously provide more peace of mind versus carrying a spare regular tire just in case.

Thanks for sharing your expertise. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that values it.

 

Seems kind of like they stuck some very sticky tires on the GP2 so that they could record some more impressive performance numbers. MINI had to try and distance the GP2 from the JCW and may have cheated a bit.

 

Only my tires...LOL..not trying to drive you nuts...just an odd question in a tire thread...(the fact one might consider how to put carbs on a forced induction, computer controlled, drive by wire motor made me laugh)....I was thinking you had a buddy use you log-in and post!!

CT is not half bad for mini's....my be not as common as CA, but
Been on group ride from RI to central CT....and I got my car tuned in CT...lots of folks there were from CT....

 

Yeah, smoking tires is a great retort! It seems sometimes going "back to the future" may have virtue wherein old becomes new again and advantages are rediscovered. Yes, it is a faux pas to post a comment about carbs in this tire & wheel forum. My apology to all. BTW -- An NOS cocktail can get the imagination in high gear rapidly

Perhaps the CT miniacs are hidden in the woodwork or perhaps in the woods. A more thorough search may be required.

 

Sounds like a reasonable presumption. Super sticky tires would provide a distinct driving experience capable of eclipsing the JCW drive fitted with more "pedestrian" shoes.

 

It's a stupid move, Kumho might have made an offer that MINI could not refuse.

The Kumho Ecsta V700 is a dry weather, summer "track" tire. There isn't much more to say. If you want to waste it by driving on the street, go ahead but it's not worth it.

If you can afford a GP2 you can afford to burn through tires like water. If you took it to the track you could cord the V700 in one day, it's easy. On the other hand if you knew what you were doing, you'd be fine.

If you did want to replace it for the same sized tire you have:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...40&diameter=17

Of these, some of the best Extreme Summer tires are-
Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08 $191 each, closeout, low stock
Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08 R $188 each (newer AD08)
Dunlop Direzza ZII $153 each, very good grip wet or dry.

As for the newer modern versions of runflat tires- it's improving and each year there is more selection at better prices. Certainly the currently sold runflats are superior to the ones that were out in 2003. I'm not saying that if you put on the same runflat as my MINI had in 2003 OEM you'd get a better tire in 2013. But the competition in runflats is now good enough to stimulate better tire design and lower prices which is good.

Is a modern runflat stiffer compared to non runflat tires? Yes, but it is more forgiving than the old runflats so that's an improvement. Are there some non runflat tires that are very stiff and less comfortable? Yes, absolutely, so while you are searching for the best handling and most grippy tires, don't expect all of them to be comfortable, quiet, and last long. Everything about tires is a compromise, you never get something good for nothing.

At the same time high prices do not ensure that the tire is ANY good. I have seen many a high priced tire that was not worth it. Not sure what the tire company is thinking. Either they make cheap, junk OEM tires and high prices thinking that owners will just ask for the same OEM tire be put on, or they have good tires but grossly overpriced compared to the competition. There is some value to shopping by brand but I find there is a great variation in a given brand between tire classes and even tire models in the same class.

Of course this complicates the tire market considerably, add to that when the big box stores sell their own versions of common tires so it's hard to compare what you are getting. At least Costco sells real tires, but their tire selection is limited especially for the MINI.

 

"How can such tires be responsibly fitted to a factory car given their very poor traction in wet conditions for year around use? They're just marginally more drivable (and safe) than full-bore racing slicks."

MINI offered an exchange of those tires to anyone who didn't like them after finding some with cracks in freezing weather.

I have a set of each fitted to wheels for my 1967 Lotus Elans. I have driven the DOT-certified 70As comfortably at speed in wet weather. I would never do that with a groveless tire that will hydroplane on a thin sheet of water.

 

Yes, the tire market is vast. In fact, all consumers goods offer a bewildering assortment that makes choosing a rather formidable task. Must have been easier in the "good old days" when the toughest decision was between vanilla and chocolate! Of course that's an exaggeration, but it nevertheless underscores the complexity of living in the 21st century. Technology is advancing more rapidly than ever before. It won't be long before we will be able to custom 3-D print tires that are tailor-made to our specifications. Like wheels that are practically 100% CNC manufactured, robotics programmed with artificial intelligence, are becoming part of our high-tech milieu. Self-driving and self-parking cars are just the tip of the iceberg. I applaud technology and marvel at it like most, but am not overjoyed by the way it complicates our lives. It forces us to race to keep up and absorb more and more knowledge to perform what were once simple, routine tasks -- like shopping fo tires. We're not all cut out to be astronauts, nor are we necessarily eager to live in Lancaster, PA and drive horse-drawn carriages. IMHO, there needs to be a more finely-tuned balance struck to moderate the anxiety created by future shock. There's my editorial rant for the day!

 

The reality for the tire market is even though there is improvement in design and technology, it still can be a seamless experience for many vehicle owners.

You can go to a tire shop, costco, dealership, Sears, etc, and tell them you want replacement tires. They tell you what they recommend and have in stock or can order and for how much. You decide and say Yes or No. This type of experience is common in the consumer market from appliances to Solar panels to watches.

On the other hand if you know how to use the internet you can look up a great deal more info on any consumer item, how much it costs, get reviews, contact people that are owners, etc. It's up to you, not everyone has the time, interest, or understanding of how things work. They just use it.

If you found this forum you're likely capable of doing some research and can decide for yourself which path to take.

Even though I shop around, I still often buy tires for my cars from Costco. The price is right given the high cost of shipping to Hawaii, they are close and offer hazzard warranty. Their options are limited but usually I can find something I can live with.

For racing tires I always order online and pay the shipping. I have never ordered used racing tires at a discount, the quality varies too much. I can get a set of race tires to last up to 3 years/seasons with monthly events.

 

Yes, minihune, you are correct. Internet research can be a valuable/money-saving resource. I use it all the time. I also buy tires at COSTCO where prices are generally competitive and service is excellent. I also like the nitro inflation it offers versus air elsewhere.

For most people buying tires is a fairly straightforward task involving size and price. For the niche market composed of enthusiasts like us, buying is a more complex event as we are more knowledgeable and discerning than the average shopper. Our needs are much more sophisticated and demanding.

With technology rapidly moving forward it will not be long before we see airless tires that are flat-proof, provide exceptional tread life, and have the adhesion characteristics we desire. Of course, as with any cutting-edge (newly introduced) technology pricing will be very high until it becomes mainstream. I am surprised that colored tires have not made it to the marketplace. They were displayed at SEMA nearly a decade ago as prototypes, but are not yet available. They even displayed treads with colored patterns. Now, black is dominant with only a few white wall options.
I think with all the bespoke options available on high-end cars, colored tires could add more icing the cake similar to vinyl wrap options.

I have a relative that was a chemical engineer at Goodyear. He said there were compounds theoretically capable of lasting a million miles. Given the fact that tire companies are in business to sell tires, it is hard to imagine such products ever reaching consumers.

Enjoy paradise!