Hey,

I'm looking for a car that has 4 doors and a 4 cylinder turbo engine.

I'd like to take it auto-crossing, the occasional track day, and HPDE. I plan on doing a nice coil-over suspension in both and a tune for the CM. The CM would be steptronic and the ST only comes in MT, which is perfect.

The CM's AWD is great with aggressive driving in the dry, wet, and even the snow. The ST's fwd setup is good, but has a lot of torque steer.

From the research I've done, I believe the CM will be slower than the ST, even with a tune. Ultimately, I'm not looking for a track monster or to lower my lap times. I'm looking for a fun car to own for 5+ years and enjoy.

Thanks for your feedback.

Aaron

 

may want to read up on tuning auto tranny CMs...not many options right now. Check out the mods section.

 

My wife and I drove an auto CMS4 and were NOT impressed...not even a little. The shifts via the paddles are slow, and it's overall very sluggish, compared to the M6. To me, it would be incredibly frustrating in an auto-x or HPDE situation.

A reason I would not be looking at a Focus ST is the torque steer with it's 2wd-only configuration. It's something that always drove me crazy with powerful small cars.

My wife has wanted a Mini for quite awhile but she waited until they came out with an AWD version to eliminate that problem.

 

If it was me.. Id prolly get the ST. No real reason as I dont know much abut the ST other than its a turbo'd 4 cylinder and I can only guess its suppose to compete with the Speed3. Have you looked into Speed3's? Even the older ones if you dont like the newer ones. My Speed 3 was prolly my favorite car I've had so far. The MCS comes very close but I just had waaaay more fun in the Speed 3. And as far as torque steer is concerned... if its anything like the Speed 3.. its really not that bad. People make it out to be uncontrollable. Which its not. You get used to it after a lil while. And since your not looking for huge amounts of power... the torque steer really wont be that bad.

Only thing I would potentially be worried about with autocross is if you need all the power in 1st or 2nd gear.. as opposed to 3rd 4th 5th. Cause I know in the Speed 3 they limit.. or "turn down" the boost in 1st and 2nd gear so you can actually catch some traction in those gears. Not till 3rd gear on...do you have full boost. Not sure if they do that in the ST but I wouldnt be suprised if they do to tone down the torque steer.

My question is why would you get a Auto CM... but be fine with the manual in the ST? Especially if your trying to get autocross and such. Wouldnt the manual give you more control of the car? I think any "steptronic" "shiftable" automatic transmission is useless because of how laggy they are. Only exceptions are supercars.

 

If you're planning to autocross, get the ST. The CM isn't allowed in Solo events per the current SCCA rules.

 

I drove the **** out of an ST, and the torque steer wasn't that bad at all. It was a delightful car to drive, with a very nice and comfortable interior. I'd take it over anything in the MINI lineup currently, especially considering the nice Recaro seats.

 

Chrunck is right - if autocross is your goal, the Countryman is not for you. Have you considered anything else in the MINI lineup?

For what it's worth, I think the Countryman feels more "premium" and gives you the added benefit of AWD.

The ST is fun as hell and is a very good looking car. I wish Ford would add AWD. If they did I already would have bought one.

 

I was THIS CLOSE to buying a Focus ST until... I saw the internal clutch slave on the trans and swore I'd never fall prey to that crap design again.

Worst design ever... Nothing but a crap crappy cost cutting measure. I used to do boatloads of them at the Ford dealer on Rangers and F150s.

Then I read it was the same problematic design as the past Focus SVT.

Pass.

 

I've driven the manual CM's and it feels like the clutch is being overpowered by the driveline. If we were to get back into the Mini family, it might be with a JCW hardtop. Unfortunately, no rear doors means less convenience. JCW CM is just currently too expensive.

Aaron

 

What about a Golf R if you want AWD or GTI if 2wd is enough? I had a MkV GTI and I loved it. I would stick with a manual though. I got the DSG, but I really missed rowing my own after a while. The CMS is a great drive. I like the way it handles better than the GTI. My business partner has a Golf R and it is mighty whippy. I'd give it a look.

 

I just bought a 2013 jcw hardtop manual. I think if you want a fast mini get this one. I drive at lime rock all the time and the car is so much fun in the corners. If you are set on a cm maybe a cm jcw is the best choice. It comes standard with all 4

 

I'd suggest a WRX as well, if OP wants AWD, four doors, and fun.

You get a lot more power for your dollar than with a CM, too. The interior is incredibly boring, but they're fun to drive.

 

Boring? It's more like a plastic soda bottle. It felt like poop. Materials were thin.. Options were limited.. Vehicle color choices were ugly.. Transaxle known to be weak.. Given the money it's not worth it.. The entire car was just a squeak and rattle trap...

 

Drove the Golf R's new and used. The used R's felt untogether, like they'd been abused. Both had -15K miles on them. Not something that is appealing in a car.

They new car's felt great, but for how long?

The JCW hardtop is absolutely something to consider. But without the rear doors, not too practical.

+2

 

+100000 on the WRX interior. I know it started as a dolled-up economy car, but it's shameful that a Hyundai Elantra has a nicer interior. Couple that with a terrible sales experience and I don't think I'll be reconsidering a WRX any time soon.

Just for posterity, I wanted to provide my thoughts on the ST in completeness (just wanted to throw this out there because I was replying from my phone last time):
-Performance/driving impression: I don't think you would ever feel like it was lacking in power. Torque steer was happily absent in the ~20 minutes I drove it and I wasn't gentle with the accelerator. It reaches highway speeds with urgency and you could definitely rack up some speeding tickets with this car.
-Suspension: It felt positive and engaging without ever really feeling fidgety or punishing. Ride quality seems like it would be acceptable for long trips.
-Transmission: One of those, "it's so good you don't think about it" kind of things. It just works, and it never makes you work hard.
-Interior was probably 6/10. The materials and finish were good, and the seats were definitely a nice touch. I could have done without the colored accents in the seats though, and the huge ST logo embroidery. The seats were very supportive but I felt that they were too narrow to be comfortable for me on long trips. To be fair, I'm a big guy but I haven't had this problem in anything else I've driven. The infotainment interface seems a little slapdash and it's hard to tell exactly how things work. Storage behind the rear seats seemed to be very generous.
-Exterior: Styling is very nice. It's not the most conventionally beautiful car ever made but it stands out from the run of the mill econobox crowd. The panel fit and paint seemed to be great.

Other thoughts: Whatever system Ford put in place to pipe the engine sound into the cabin is just weird. It's unnecessary and sounds synthetic. Just make the car genuinely loud if that's how it's intended. I also noticed something strange about the wheels - they are clearcoated alloys, and the edges around the spokes and barrel just didn't seem very finished. I don't know how else to describe it.

All that said, for what the OP wants, the ST might be the right car. It's very quick and should be livable as a daily driver with everything you need to pop your helmet on and head out to the autocross course or race track.

I think the way to view the Countryman is as a car for people who want a MINI first and need/want more utility than the hatchback can provide. It's a compromise from a performance standpoint, and as pointed out before it isn't allowed in SCCA Solo events.

 

I do think that overall... The ST is one great car.. You can get the Recaros heated.. Which gets rid if the silly looking seats.

I wasn't crazy about the center stack layout.. The car was a little too tight for me inside... My R55 has a lot more room.. Er.. More open air feeling.

I did like the styling overall of the ST... Like I said.. I almost got one..

The car has some torque steer.. But it's no where a deal breaker.. It was better than the Mazda 3 speed I tested.. The way people cry about it you would think the cars are undrivable, it's certainty overblown.

 

Good article on the ST here if you want to read up on it.

 

Clicking the link (and not reading it yet.) reminded me of the GTI as a possibility. Available in 4 doors, and also a nice car to drive. Plenty of power, and plenty more available with a tune (50HP with a reflash, allegedly.) and a huge aftermarket. I haven't driven the DSG which is supposed to be fantastic, but the six speed manual is smooth and engaging. Power delivery is very smooth as well. The trunk is huge. The inside feels spacious. Again I didn't think torque steer was a big deal. I never do, though... maybe I just hold the wheel more firmly than your average driver.

Things I didn't like: Stock stereo sounded like garbage, dash was ugly, electric steering felt incredibly light and I didn't feel any feedback from the front wheels. Some body roll when abused through corners, but I was doing a back to back comparison with my R50 on coilovers on the same roads. Probably not fair.

I'm not a big guy but I found the bolsters on the seats too narrow. I couldn't get my back INTO the seat.

I recently watched Chris Harris review the GTI and found myself regretting not getting one all the same.

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...-ar158644.html

I spent 24 hours with a 2011 and it was a blast.

 

We have the DSG on our new VW Jetta TDI. It is pretty good except at parking lot speeds. Most of the time it starts in 2nd but it seems to hunt between 1st and 2nd when puttering around below 5mph, like the engine is missing or something. Just feels weird. Above 5mph though, it works really well. Very smooth and quick to shift. Definitely not your typical slushbox. Getting rid of the torque converter makes a huge difference.

 

I have driven a Lancer Ralliart with their dual clutch box, and I thought it was pretty good. I like the idea, but I'm not sure I could give up rowing my own gears for the long term.

 

Fully agree. I like our DSG TDI

 

That's a great recommendation and surely something we considered. It seems that the GTI has trouble getting the power down coming out of turns. I took one for an extended test drive and just couldn't get that feeling of "engagement" that the Mini's provide. It seems that the Focus ST's also provide a very high level of engagement. Not like the Mini's, but like a Barrel of Monkey's!

The new GTI would be a consideration, but that won't be here for another year. Not willing to wait.

Also wanted to add that my wife drives the '13 GLI. It's like the Golf->GTI and the Jetta->GLI. We opted for the DSG. All in all, it's a great car to jot about in with the kiddo's. We both are simply looking for something more fun and engaging with 4 doors.

Aaron

 

I sold my '12 ALL4 and bought a '13 Focus ST and it is absolutely wonderful. Had nothing but problems with the MINI (and too early to comment on ST quality) I can tell you the ST is a blast. Gearbox shifts much better and clutch doesn't have that vague engage point my ALL4 did. The ecoboost engine has lots of low end torque where the mini was really weak. Handles like a dream and is dripping with power. I'll probably miss the AWD when the first snow hits this winter but I plan on getting snow tires.

 

So... Um... What was wrong with it? Made of silly putty? Missing its seals?

Sent from my iPad using NAMotoring

 

It's a poor design with known issues when they used it in the Focus SVT. There is no clutch fork, but rather the slave and throwout bearing are one part mounted inside the trans. They leak, spraying brake fluid on the clutch disk and ruin it. Rather than a short 1 hr job and a $30 part for most cars, the internal design requires you to pull the trans, replace the slave, clutch, and pressure plate.

It goes from a $130 job to a $1300 one.

Clutch failures are often and crop up with no warning. One day, boom, clutch drops to the floor and never comes back up.