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R56S LCI at track (onboard video)

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Old Jun 6, 2013 | 11:30 PM
  #1  
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mini_aaron
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R56S LCI at track (onboard video)

Just came from a local track day at Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Wanted to share my driving experience and get some tips!

here is url for my last post (Laguna Seca onboard cam)
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...guna-seca.html


and my local track info :

Mission Raceway(River's Edge Raceway)

1.35 miles, 9 turns, basically feels like a compressed version of Canadian GP Circuit (Gilles Villeneuve Circuit)
Concrete walls all over and almost no run off areas, chicanes and patched pavements...

Here is the video(22 mins and I had to stop due to low fuel)


2011 R56 MCS LCI w/ Bridgestone RE760 205-50-16, Hawk HP plus, RBF 600 fluid
 
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Old Jun 7, 2013 | 12:31 PM
  #2  
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Eddie07S
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Pretty good. That is one scary track in my mind with the concrete walls and no runoff. Which means you need to look well ahead and plan each turn. I also noticed that you were "chasing" the car in front of you. That can be problem if you are close as you will tend to drive the way they are driving not the way you should be driving. If you are close to a car like that, look through the car to where you should be driving. That way, you won't drive off the track when they do.

As for driving suggestions, I found this track map that I will refer to:
http://www.bchmr.ca/wp-content/uploa...ceway-Park.jpg

Your hand movements are better from before. Smoother and both hands always on the wheel. I also see more of a "roll-in and roll-out" some of the turns.
Take more time on the first lap to warm everything up. This is an important habit to get into when you progress to higher performance brack pads and tires. They don't like to do things when they are cold and that could put you off the track.
On the start of your first full lap, going into turn 1, it looks like you are turning in too early and well before the turn-in cone on the left. As a result you are early apexing the corner and fighting the car to the track out. Stay on the gas a little longer, brake a little later, harder and a little further down the track - of course make changes like this in small increments. Then turn-in sharply followed by an unwind of the steering wheel and application of the gas. Similarly with turns 4 and 7a. With turn 7a, that turn sets you up for the 7b and turning in too early at 7a sets you up to be too early on the next turn and you have to slow and turn more to set up for 7b. A little later on 7a will make turn 7b a little straighter. A hint for telling that you are turning in too early, look at your video and any where that you make a correction before the apex (unwind a little), you are too early.
Between turns 3 and 4 you are tracking to the left and then back to the right. Turns 3 and 4 are both left hand turns. So, coming out of T3 stay to the right all the way up to the turn in for T4 - don't hit the wall at the dog leg in the straight.

Do you know how to heal and toe? I can't tell how you are making your shifts from the video.

Lastly treat yourself to some driving gloves. I am told that baseball batting gloves (leather) are a good inexpensive choice. This will help with hand fatigue.

Mostly, have fun, be safe and drive your car home
 
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Old Jun 9, 2013 | 02:41 PM
  #3  
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mini_aaron
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From: Vancouver, CANADA/ KOREA
Thank you!! :D

Again, Thank you for being my remote instructor, Eddie!
I am glad that I got so many valuable tips again this time.

So, "try not to chase the car infront of me".. I will keep that in mind...

"taking more time to warm everything up..." I actually had an incident a month ago, being too eager on just second lap of the day...:(
I will put more effort on it definitely.


Regarding your comments on the video, I am sorry that I couldn't find/recognize the "early turn in(T1) on the first full lap".. may be I just can't see...:(

But I am happy that now I can review my video with your comments in my mind, and.. I will be able to proceed little more on next event!

My gloves are back ordered, too bad I couldn't get it before the event but I will have them on next event for sure.



BTW, I got couple of questions on driving our MINIs at track,
I am sure that you are the guy can give me the light.

1. EDLC.

At laguna seca(previous post), I turned dsc totally off(pressed button for like 3 seconds) to activate the EDLC feature. (Based on the articles like this )
But listning to your tips on my lagunaseca post, this time I just pressed the dsc button for just 1 second having DTC on(Am I right?)

The car felt same way... I was able to nail the gas out of apex..
and since I had the DTC on, I had less chance to go too wrong like spining out of the track...

My question is,, so,, is EDLC still useable without DSC fully off?
then, what could be the benefit of turning the DSC fully off?
(May be driving closer to the limit like make the car oversteer with trail braking and do the "slip driving"?)



2. After watching my video, a guy driving miata commented,

"As far as your driving is concerned, I noticed that a lot of times, you are still trying to turn the car (via the steering wheel, really) when the car is already understeering. IMO, that is probably a habit you want to avoid. The thing is, when a car is understeering, it means there is already not enough lateral grip to turn the car. By holding the steering wheel still, or worse, trying to turn more, you are really not helping the front tires. Typically, when my car understeers, I would ease off the throttle a bit and straighten the steering wheel a bit as well."

I know I need to practice to unwind earlier and track the car out with gas,
but I wanted to get 100% benefit from EDLC at the corner exits...
Am I doing too wrong driving elsd equipped front wheel drive cars with nailing gas early with some steering angle?
Or is he judging FF car driver with the eyes of FR car driver?


Sorry for being super long writing...
But I realized that I can't get a straight answer from who doesn't know how our MINI feels/moves with EDLC...





Originally Posted by Eddie07S
Pretty good. That is one scary track in my mind with the concrete walls and no runoff. Which means you need to look well ahead and plan each turn. I also noticed that you were "chasing" the car in front of you. That can be problem if you are close as you will tend to drive the way they are driving not the way you should be driving. If you are close to a car like that, look through the car to where you should be driving. That way, you won't drive off the track when they do.

As for driving suggestions, I found this track map that I will refer to:
http://www.bchmr.ca/wp-content/uploa...ceway-Park.jpg

Your hand movements are better from before. Smoother and both hands always on the wheel. I also see more of a "roll-in and roll-out" some of the turns.
Take more time on the first lap to warm everything up. This is an important habit to get into when you progress to higher performance brack pads and tires. They don't like to do things when they are cold and that could put you off the track.
On the start of your first full lap, going into turn 1, it looks like you are turning in too early and well before the turn-in cone on the left. As a result you are early apexing the corner and fighting the car to the track out. Stay on the gas a little longer, brake a little later, harder and a little further down the track - of course make changes like this in small increments. Then turn-in sharply followed by an unwind of the steering wheel and application of the gas. Similarly with turns 4 and 7a. With turn 7a, that turn sets you up for the 7b and turning in too early at 7a sets you up to be too early on the next turn and you have to slow and turn more to set up for 7b. A little later on 7a will make turn 7b a little straighter. A hint for telling that you are turning in too early, look at your video and any where that you make a correction before the apex (unwind a little), you are too early.
Between turns 3 and 4 you are tracking to the left and then back to the right. Turns 3 and 4 are both left hand turns. So, coming out of T3 stay to the right all the way up to the turn in for T4 - don't hit the wall at the dog leg in the straight.

Do you know how to heal and toe? I can't tell how you are making your shifts from the video.

Lastly treat yourself to some driving gloves. I am told that baseball batting gloves (leather) are a good inexpensive choice. This will help with hand fatigue.

Mostly, have fun, be safe and drive your car home
 
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Old Jun 9, 2013 | 02:52 PM
  #4  
mini_aaron's Avatar
mini_aaron
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From: Vancouver, CANADA/ KOREA
And another thing I want to mention here,,
from my laptimer record, I notticed that my straight line speed and lap time became slow after like 4 laps of driving, notticeably 2 second slower than earlier laps of the session.

And I could see that the car couldn't pull strong at high rpms compared to earlier laps(according to my butt dyno)so I just upshifted before get to the rev limit...

I am sure that it shows how our minis are weak on heat.. intake air temperature killed power on that kind of mild weather(77F')

And this track is harsh on brakes and turbos with less straight.. :(

Need for FMIC..haha..
 
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Old Jun 12, 2013 | 07:18 PM
  #5  
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Eddie07S
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From: Upstate NY
Originally Posted by mini_aaron
Again, Thank you for being my remote instructor, Eddie!
I am glad that I got so many valuable tips again this time.

So, "try not to chase the car infront of me".. I will keep that in mind...

"taking more time to warm everything up..." I actually had an incident a month ago, being too eager on just second lap of the day...:(
I will put more effort on it definitely.


Regarding your comments on the video, I am sorry that I couldn't find/recognize the "early turn in(T1) on the first full lap".. may be I just can't see...:(

But I am happy that now I can review my video with your comments in my mind, and.. I will be able to proceed little more on next event!

My gloves are back ordered, too bad I couldn't get it before the event but I will have them on next event for sure.



BTW, I got couple of questions on driving our MINIs at track,
I am sure that you are the guy can give me the light.

1. EDLC.

At laguna seca(previous post), I turned dsc totally off(pressed button for like 3 seconds) to activate the EDLC feature. (Based on the articles like this )
But listning to your tips on my lagunaseca post, this time I just pressed the dsc button for just 1 second having DTC on(Am I right?)

The car felt same way... I was able to nail the gas out of apex..
and since I had the DTC on, I had less chance to go too wrong like spining out of the track...

My question is,, so,, is EDLC still useable without DSC fully off?
then, what could be the benefit of turning the DSC fully off?
(May be driving closer to the limit like make the car oversteer with trail braking and do the "slip driving"?)
Glad you followed my advice. You are out there to have fun and learn how to drive. "It is not a race". Pressing and letting up gets you a different level of DTC which is good for the track but will help to protect you. You will always have the electronic limited slip (or whatever BMW has decided to call it) even when every thing is off.

Originally Posted by mini_aaron

2. After watching my video, a guy driving miata commented,

"As far as your driving is concerned, I noticed that a lot of times, you are still trying to turn the car (via the steering wheel, really) when the car is already understeering. IMO, that is probably a habit you want to avoid. The thing is, when a car is understeering, it means there is already not enough lateral grip to turn the car. By holding the steering wheel still, or worse, trying to turn more, you are really not helping the front tires. Typically, when my car understeers, I would ease off the throttle a bit and straighten the steering wheel a bit as well."

I know I need to practice to unwind earlier and track the car out with gas,
but I wanted to get 100% benefit from EDLC at the corner exits...
Am I doing too wrong driving elsd equipped front wheel drive cars with nailing gas early with some steering angle?
Or is he judging FF car driver with the eyes of FR car driver?


Sorry for being super long writing...
But I realized that I can't get a straight answer from who doesn't know how our MINI feels/moves with EDLC...
The Miata driver is 100% right on all accounts. That is a bad habit that you want to avoid. This is why you need to "unwind" as you exit a turn; so you can apply power. Think of a string tired to your steering wheel and gas pedal. As you turn the steering wheel the string pulls up on the gas pedal. As you straighten the steering wheel it will allow you to apply more gas. Another way to think of it is - if you have the wheels turned and the front is about to slide, you are at the limits of your traction. What will happen if you apply more gas and don't change the angle of the wheels? You will ask the wheels to do more than they can and the car will understeer - go straight - as there is no more traction left to absorb the added power. A way to tell if you need to unwind is if you apply power and the tires protest (make noise) then you need to straighten out the wheels. While it will seem to counter intuitive, you will actually complete the turn better by going straighter.
 
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Old Jun 12, 2013 | 07:21 PM
  #6  
Eddie07S's Avatar
Eddie07S
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Joined: May 2010
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From: Upstate NY
Originally Posted by mini_aaron
And another thing I want to mention here,,
from my laptimer record, I notticed that my straight line speed and lap time became slow after like 4 laps of driving, notticeably 2 second slower than earlier laps of the session.

And I could see that the car couldn't pull strong at high rpms compared to earlier laps(according to my butt dyno)so I just upshifted before get to the rev limit...

I am sure that it shows how our minis are weak on heat.. intake air temperature killed power on that kind of mild weather(77F')

And this track is harsh on brakes and turbos with less straight.. :(

Need for FMIC..haha..
You could need a FMIC - I have a Helix that I really like. But I would also check your air filter and change your spark plugs if you have more than 30,000 miles on the car. As for brakes, invest in some good track pads for the front. The Carbotech XP-10s are a really good choice for the mini - Way Motors has them.
 
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