Consumer Reports just released their customer survey results on initial quality.

For small cars the Mini, Toyota Prius, and Honda Accord were rated the best, in that order. for number of defects in the first year.

 

I think they were rated "customer choice" in satisfaction. Consumer Reports didn't rate the MINI in their top list at all from what I read.

Then again their criteria isn't the same as the typical MINI owner

 

Well thats my feeling about the MINI.

 

Is Consumer Reports automatically going to be regarded for the rest of eternity as an authority on cars, just because they've been thought of as such for so long? I'm convinced that people only pay attention to their opinions because they're constantly bombarded with them. If the MINI was rated higher than the Accord in initial quality, I'd love to see what they based that on. Absolutely no way that's the case in the real world. And since when is the Accord a small car? Those things are freaking BOATS now, they're about the size of a Buick Regal. Something smells here.

_________________
"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane." -Oscar Wilde

 

Consumer Reports have repeatedly demonstrated they know nothing about what they "report" on, whether the verdict is good or bad - get your media coverage from somewhere else!

Consumer Reports is only good for lighting your fireplace and in the out-house

 

It's called 'Consumer Reports,' but have you ever reveived a rating sheet from them on anything you haved purchased? How is it consumer rated if consumers have no say. I have yet to know one person who's had a say in their rating system.

 

Consumer Reports sends surveys to subscribers only, meaning that there's a lot of intellectual in-breeding going on (they've been raving about the Toyotas and Hondas for so long, most of their subscribed customers must drive them)

Also, CR doesn't publish the number of respondents or the standard deviation. So for all we know, there could be statistically no difference between a good and bad rating. It all depends...

There's a really great, and fairly objective, editorial about Consumer Reports here.


Cheers,
Mike

 

That was a pretty good article. What I found most interesting was how car makers can cover up poor reliability by scheduling maintenance for when they know problems will occur, never thought of it that way.

 

The last 3 cars I was involved with the purchase decision included a Civic, a CRV, and my MCS. My family also had a Honda Accord from the early 1990s.
To my surprise, my MCS so far has the least number of problems.
The Accord was troublesome enough that my dad said he won't ever buy an Accord again. The Civic was so bad it was dumped at 15,000 miles. The CRV's initial problem list was twice as long as the MCS. The CRV is one-year-old now, and still have 2 outstanding recalls that is yet to be taken care of. One is the throttle cable - it could rust and stick and the wrong spot, and another is the transmission shifter cable - you could put the shifter in park and the transmission could actually not be in park. There were some initial assembly issues that could not be corrected, so we have to live with it. CRV is a reliable car, but I could tell it was cheaply made. It is simply not in the same league as the MINI.

As much as we complain about MINI's quality, so far I have been very happy with it. In my experience, MINI's quality has been better than Honda's.

 

I'll go ahead and second that.

I haven't had my Mini long enough to actually have any problems yet, but from an initial "quality" perspective the Mini rules (mine does at least).

My old Civic, even when it was almost brand new, seemed very cheap and plasticky. It had rear drum (yes drum) brakes and the AC never did work very well. The engine was SOLID, as in I never had a single problem other than the alternator (which is to be expected); the body, however, was as cheap as they come. The very thin aluminum frame would dent if you looked at it funny, and the paint was very cheap (non-metallic) flaky stuff. Bits of plastic from the dash/controls would fall of fairly regularly, and need to be replaced (all minor things, but added to the "lack of quality" feeling).

Don't misunderstand, my Civic was a great little car and I loved it immensly; but where it exuded cheapness and corner cutting, the Mini screams "innovation" and "cutting edge" and, quite honestly, "quality".

 

Agreed. I had a Civic and it is nothing like my MINI. The MINI is a luxury small car, whereas the Civic was an economy small car. Some things the MINI does well that the Civic did poorly: defrosting the windshield. braking. steering. heated seats. non glare mirrors. auto climate control. Bigger wheels and tires. Interior design. Exterior design. Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

Cooper vs. Civic

I have a 2002 Cooper and I just bought a 2002 Civic. The Honda is a nice little car, but it's not a MINI. There's a huge difference between the cars and it's not just the handling. Just compare by closing one of the side doors of just about any car and nothing compares to the MINI's. My friend has one of the newer Volvos (that weighs 1500 pounds more than my Cooper) and although the door feels heavy it doesn't close with same solid thud of the MINI. It's going to be interesting comparing the reliability of my two 2002s over the next several years.

 

Wow, I'm surprised that several people agree with me about Civics.
I thought at least we would get a few replies saying how great Hondas are......

I was driving my friend's CRV the other day. Everytime the wiper wipes, the brake pedal moves with it. The pedals and the wiper assemblies are mounted on the same beam, so any movement in the wipers sends vibration to the brake pedal. Also, everytime I look in the back seat, I have to stare at the mis-matched two halves of the folding seat. I have to say I really enjoy my MINI a whole lot more.

 

For initial quality, Consumer Reports rated the MINI 99% below average. Only a BMW and a few others that I don't remember were rated lower. The MINI was only rated high in Customer Satisfaction........which just happens to be the most important rating. :smile: :smile:


R.E.

 

Amen to the Civic not defrosting quickly and braking poorly...

I see people on here complain constantly that the Auto AC defroster on the MINI is "too loud" or "on full blast" when you first turn it on. I LOVE IT. If you'll notice, if you don't hold the button down to stop it, the defroster eventually (after about 30-60 seconds I'd say) turns itself down. The idea is that if you get in your car and it's really fogged up, a quick press and the windows are CLEAR.

Where the MINI takes about 5-10 seconds to clear the windows my old Civic took about 5-10 MINUTES. I would, very often, be late for things because I'd have to wait for my car to defrost enough for me to see!

The brakes, with very lousy rear drums and tiny (non ventilated) front rotors w/ no ABS, are actually what caused my recent accident (or didn't properly prevent it) that killed my Civic! Under heavy (but not extreme by any means) braking the brakes would ALWAYS lock eventually, even if you pumped them.

There ARE good things to say about the Civic. It never once left me stranded. Not a single major drivetrain problem in 8 years of ownership, and it still had the original clutch. It got outstanding (not just great) gas mileage for a '93 car, and if you revved it up over 5k it actually had a bit of sport to it sometimes.

 

From the 2004 Cars Best & Worst issue of CR

The Mini, developed by BMY, blends much of the charm of the old '60s classic with modern levels of cabin amenities and safety. It is powered by a 1.6 liter, four-cylinder engine paired with either a slick manual or a continuously variable transmission (CVT). The manual version offers easy shifting. Handling is extremely agile, making it fun to drive, but the ride is choppy. The base engine lacks oomph. Road noise is pronounced. Tall people will find the cockpit roomy, but the rear is very tight. The supercharged S model is quicker and grippier but rides more harshly. Reliability has been poor.

Reliability: Much worse than average
Satisfaction: Much better than average
Depreciation: NA

Crash Tests:
Front crash: Better than average for both driver and passenger
Side crash: Better than average for driver, NA for passenger
Offset crash: Good

Perhaps not surprisingly, the closest vehicles to the MINI in terms of low reliability, high satisfaction were other "extreme" machines, the Chevy Corvette and Hummer H2.

 

>>Is Consumer Reports automatically going to be regarded for the rest of eternity as an authority on cars, just because they've been thought of as such for so long? I'm convinced that people only pay attention to their opinions because they're constantly bombarded with them. If the MINI was rated higher than the Accord in initial quality, I'd love to see what they based that on. Absolutely no way that's the case in the real world. And since when is the Accord a small car? Those things are freaking BOATS now, they're about the size of a Buick Regal. Something smells here.


We have these arguments on the vwvortex all the time, where one hapless guy who actually works at CR carries their banner.

Here's his basic defense, and I think it holds water: CR is the only independent organization that gathers and presents rigorous statistical data about reliability trends. Their numbers, while not always what we want to hear, are statisitcally sound and predict the average reliability and problem areas for a given make/model/year.

Now, does this mean you're not going ot get a lemon Honda? Nope. Does it mean that MINI of yours is going to have problems? Of course not. In either case, you can get a car that deviates from the norm.

 

HarryC wrote:
>>Here's his basic defense, and I think it holds water: CR is the only independent organization that gathers and presents rigorous statistical data about reliability trends. Their numbers, while not always what we want to hear, are statisitcally sound and predict the average reliability and problem areas for a given make/model/year.



No doubt that CR presents statistical data... however, it's difficult to understand the differences between vehicles' statistics when CR gives no mention of the number of respondents and the standard deviation. They do not report statistics if they lack data about a model. However, there is no indication of what this minimum data threshold is. Potentially they could have data on fifty thousand Ford Foci and a hundred or so MINIs (Incidentally, they rated the Focus SVT as the most fun to drive and the normal Focus as the best small car).



Cheers,
Mike

P.S. They gave a good reliability rating to a Focus? WTF??? Those things have been plagued by recalls from day one.

 

Very interesting how this conversation has evolved. Especially the part about how Hondas are being compared against Mini's.

I can't remember who said it, but their comment was that even though their Civic had little bits and pieces falling off, the engine never failed on them completely and never left them stranded.

I mentioned in a different posting that I would be selling my Saab Viggen to get my JCW MCS. One of the reasons why is that it has left my wife completely stranded twice and we had to limp home from Iowa on no boost one trip And if so, what was the reason?

What I'm getting from these postings is that while there may be niggling things, you can rely on the car to start and get you to your destination. Am I right?

 

>>What I'm getting from these postings is that while there may be niggling things, you can rely on the car to start and get you to your destination. Am I right?


Absolutely. So far, anyway. I've had my Cooper for 1 1/2 years and it has gotten me to work and back everyday. However, I've taken it to the dealer 4 times in that time period for the following repairs: boot latch actuator; left and right window motors and regulators; steering column.