good morning to all and happy holidays. i know there are posts all over about oil changes and mileage. my wife and i both have 2010 mcs'. mine is rolling on about 2800 miles. i've added a splash of oil a while back. i noticed the last time i checked my oil on both cars that the oil was pretty black and had a hint of gas type smell to it. is this common? with winter weather here and no garage for me to change the oil in i'd rather not lay in the snow to do it. with the yearly service on these little cars, should i be concerned with the oil? is it a must to change, not change? with people that do the yearly sheduled service, have there been any issues with the motor?

thank you in advance.

 

I would have no problemo going 1 year or 10K miles whichever comes first. I did change it 1st time at 6 months or 5K miles just for piece of mind, the 5K mark came at 5 months. Without a place to do it, simply have it done if you decide to go that route.

 

I don't think you can base your decision on the color of the oil on the dipstick nor on the smell. 2800 miles isn't soon enough IMO. I've read many oil change threads since I got my Mini and you'll get many different opinions, trust me. What I gather from people who have sent their oil in for analysis is that roughly 7500 miles is a very safe oil change interval. It could be longer, but you seem good at 7500 miles. Just my .02.

 

Wow, an oil thread. That's a topic you hardly ever see discussed.

Some would say don't change it till the OBC says to. Others would say you are 2700 miles late in changing. Some leave the lot, drive the MINI like they stole it for 100 miles and change the oil.

...and remember, RPMs are your friends. The more the merrier.

 

I always do the first oil change right after the break-in period to get any junk out of the oil system.

 

That's the oil filter's job.

At any rate - whether the oil gets changed every 2 secounds or per the oil life system - the engines will most likely outlast your ownership of the vehicle. Now the 20 some computers on board I think are more likely to have some failures - too bad there's no oil changes for them......

 

My take on the oil change issue is,
if you do lot's of short trips and let the car warm up for a long time before you drive it change the oil at about 7500.
If you do alot of highway you probably can get away with the full interval with top ups if needed.
Im just saying this because my mini is subjected to lots of short trips and alot of stop and go driving and i waited my full interval and it created some sludge in my engine that i could see on the dipstick and under the valve cover.So i adjusted to 5000-7500 using a mini reccomended oil.
also, i like to use a extractor instead of the drain plug in the winter, maybe you could look into that.

 

kb30,

That is a good point that seems to get lost. My understanding that driving lots of short trips, lots of stop and go, is considered severe duty for the engine. iirc, the manual indicates the OBC and the schedules in the manual are based on routine service, so intervals may need to be shorter for severe duty.

 

For a new car, I would change the oil at <5K. As little as 500-1500 if you go to older motors w/ rougher tolerances or less clean assembly environments. Assume they know what they're doing on factory builds here w/ modern motors though. And, first pass on most any filter will not get 100% of the stuff out. Many passes, yes, but that's also many passes through critical parts like main and con rod bearings and cam shells.

Posts noting difference between city and highway driving cycles are on point of course and should be factored in; thus change interval varies w/ driving locales of each owner.

Points not made so far:

1. the additive pack of the oil is the other critical factor. Extended drain oils are made to handle this, but it ties directly to the city/frequent start vs. long miles highway/full warm up/seldom start point. Personally I think going out to close to 20K miles and two years (at the outer limit of extended drain type specs from the Euro manufacturers) is an awful lot.

2. Recognize the enviro pressures here on Euro manufacturers and then decide what to do for yourself. Green pressures in Europe, as well as general tradition and expense, have a fair amount to do with the tendencies to longer drain intervals now spec'ed for many Euro cars, as well as the variable extended approach w/ sensors. Used oil is messy and more than a little ends up not recycled in full. On the other hand, the U.S. has a tradition as short as 3K miles and 3 months, so it comes from the other end of the spectrum.

3. Also recognize the economic incentives on BMW and decide if they are the same as yours. BMW pays for the first three years of oil service. Fewer changes = less expense to them. And, for "cost of ownership" type comparisons, same incentives. By contrast, my Audi's also have extended drain sensors, close tolerance motors and all, but still stick to about a 10K drain cycle annually; the sensors are disabled in the U.S. while they are enabled in Europe. Hmmm. Net, given the economic incentives at play here, I don't take factory change intervals as gospel either.

4. Back to the original poster: it's an S (like mine), so the final answer nets to simple to me: every 5K to no more than about 7.5K, i.e. either one or two incremental intervals between the factory change ones. Basic reason: turbo. If you are religious about never getting on it til fully warmed, always idling it after fast runs before shutdowns, etc. great. Assuming you are like the rest of us though, the critical part is likely the turbo. The car has after run cooling systems, but the oil inside the turbo bearings still gets really, really hot, particularly right after shut down. That oil can literally cook inside the passages near the turbo bearings, and often did on early turbos like Saabs, Audi's, etc. Read the other posts about cooked hood intakes on S's and JCW's; that's a clue to me there is lots of afterrun heat here. Top synthetics are needed here (and be careful to spec that if you go to an oil change/service station type place. Net, since a new turbo costs thousands installed, and oil changes are cheap, I plan to do an incremental one between the factory spec ones. I did my first one as soon as I bought my 2010 (used) at about 4K miles. If I had a non-S by contrast, I would be more comfortable w/ a good synthetic going out to the annual 10-12K type intervals.

 

Yet another opinion...

Nothing but recommended intervals...

You can't tell oil health by color....

75000 miles and going strong...

Had my oil tested at the 15k mark and was told it was fine...

Draw your own conclusions, but I think I'll save my money.

 

Just a question,
I myself have a first gen and have owned a second gen too.
Do you think the first gen s is much easier on oil? Bieng that the second gen is Direct injection and turbo wouldn't that car be much harder on it's oil?
Just wondering....

 

Also know a few 2nd gens that had oil check at upper end milage and it came back fine....

Just sayin...

 

Nope, treat them the same.

You can stick with normal MINI oil change intervals or-

Do first oil change early on purpose at about 1000 miles. Then at normal intervals thereafter and you can submit oil analysis for the first few changes to Blackstone if you want.

If you do performance driving, track, etc then do oil changes every 5000 miles is fine or roughly twice as often as the MINI reminds you to do. That's what I've done for my 2003 MCS.

 

I stick by my recommendation to change it every 5k miles no matter what. Your MINI will last alot longer.

The break in oil change at 1200 miles isn't a bad idea, and def won't hurt.

 

07 MCS and I change mine every 5K since it is a daily driver. The mechanic at my local dealer suggested that I do so since the car do eat a lot of oil. At least that's what he said. I dunno if they've change or gotten better after the refresh year. I don't mind spending $$$ for the oil and filter. I just can't afford to buy another car so this has to last me a long time.

 

So you are saying that my MINI won't last as long as another 06 that does it every 5K? Proof of this?

Sorry, but empirical data shows that the oil is fine and as long as you check it, keep it topped off on a normally driven engine it should be fine. (Tracked is a different story).

I generally agree with most of what you say, but this is where I depart. Americans are just stuck to Grandpa's change it every 3K...

 

"I stick by my recommendation to change it every 5k miles no matter what. Your MINI will last alot longer."

The break in oil change at 1200 miles isn't a bad idea, and def won't hurt"

I agree.
Oil is cheap, turbo's are not.
An extra $50.00 every year of driving is cheap insurance.

On the non S model, I might be inclined to go a little bit more along with the manufacturers spec's. With a Turbo, no way.
I've been driving/working on turbo charged vehicles of one sort or another for over 30 years, turbo's are hard on oil. BMW/Mini Cooper hasn't come up with any secrets to change that. It's the nature of the beast.

 

How are turbos harder on oil than a super charged vehicle? Heat? Both get hotter than a non-charged engine. I still fail to see how that comment can be anything but conjecture.

 

i always thought that most (but not all?)turbos use motor oil as a coolant as opposed to a supercharger having its own oil to lube and cool? I'll be honest im not real familiar with supercharged motors. this it my first one and i keep it all stock.
anyhow maybe i can learn a little more from here and bitog.

 

Expect turbo's (i.e. newer S's) to be harder on oil than superchargers (older S's) at the margin, general engine size, baseline compression and power being similar that is. Turbo's by definition have really hot exhaust gas flowing through them, in addition to the heat generated from the compression action, while superchargers are belt driven and thus have just the normal pumping/compression heat. Turbo's rely on oil (and other cooling) in critical areas like the central bearings, and with the turbo rotating more quickly than anything else on the motor. On hot shut off that oil can get cooked ("coking"), especially a non synthetic. Similar oiling on superchargers, but w/out the same heat loading.

The oil changes are to some extent to deal with the dirt, but also to deal with viscosity and additive breakdown over longer change intervals or more severe duty.

Net, turbo's hardest on oil, then superchargers. With superchargers, mostly just more more power and engine heat overall. Finally N.A. (non S) engines should generate the least heat/cc and in turn least susceptible to the higher operating heat stresses on oil.

 

Yes that is what I'm saying. My backing to this is that the cars that I see for oil changes every 5k seem to have half as many problems as the cars that only come in every 15k. But most of that is with supercharged cars. The turbo cars are a bigger problem cause we've seen SEVERAL with failed turbos, but when you pull off the turbo off to replace it the oil return line is slugged up blocking the oil flow and causing the turbo to cook itself. Simple oil changes would have kept the oil line clear and fresh oil wouldn't sludge up. Most the failed cars have only had 2 or 3 oil changes because the counter didn't recommend it more often.

Also BMW is a money making company. You know their bean counters have figured out the cheapest way to make the car last through the warranty period, after that if it fails you'll buy another one, and that is really what they want. They are in the business to sell cars, if they last forever you'll never buy another.

I'm not trying to argue, but I do think oil changes are cheap engines are not. It will never hurt to change it more, but is it worth the risk to change it less?? That is a personal decision.

 

You kind of answered your own question, but yes heat is your enemy.
Simply put,heat affects, or is it effects? the "point of roll off", or the point at which the viscosity properties of oil undergo change.This is not the region of breakdown. That is entirely different, and requires much more heat
The longer the period near roll off, and the duration of the interval cycles, will have an effect on viscosity, and ergo, the life cycle of an oil.

Conjecture. No not really. Mobil has virtually libraries that expound on the subject.

It's still cheap insurance in my opinion.

 

You are a small sample and generally only people that have problems will come to see you. My point is that it is what you say is still conjecture. I have had friends with turbos pull samples and have had 0 problems. Some are already in the 6 digits with no problems.

Not totally true.... US laws are not the only laws that drive the way that they create their cars. The reason for the extended oil change comes from the fact that a simple oil change in Germany and many parts of Europe is 200+ dollars and the government wants the company to get the most out of it. So I guess that Honda and Toyota are not in it to sell cars because many of their cars go long miles before they go? One could also say that you said that only because you want to sell oil changes!

I totally agree here. It is a personal choice and it is cheap here in the USA so there is nothing wrong with doing it. My point is that what I have found via oil analysis (USA Mobil 1 oil at the time) was that it came back within tolerances and was assumed to be able to do 5K more and that was with autobahn driving as well as German B road driving.

LOL, I know that heat is my enemy, thanks for that. My point is that after 15K of hard driving (see above) that my oil had 5K left on it. Do what you want and change it but don't spout garbage without empirical proof, that is my point! What he said is conjecture....

I shall post no more on the topic as I feel that I have spoken. Doug is a professional and you won't be hurt by following his advice so people can certainly do as they please.