Ok so I have some plans for the suspension on my R53, Quite a few of the parts have already been purchaced and delivered(thanks D/T you guys cary a lot of stuff) I'm just waiting on the government supplyed funding for my project(No I'm a normal car guy in the army deployed to Iraq, Uncle Sam is just providing my paycheck)to buy the big expencive items on my list. Any recomendations for alignment settings, or damper levels/ spring rates will help, and be taken into concideration.
So heres the "List"
1) Cross comp coilovers (Un decided on spring rate)
2) Helix rear controll arms (all four)
3) Hotchkiss comp swaybars (front and rear)
4) TSW X-brace
5) M7 front strut tower brace
6) All the little rubber bits replaced with poly bushings
7) Wilwoods BBK for all 4 wheels
8) Konig Feather wheels 17X7 or 17X7.5
9) Falken Azenis RT615 tires 215/40/17
Some things I'm not sure of
1) Alta PSRS is it worth it
2) Mini Mania Presision steering amplifyer system
3) Who makes the best S/B End links
4) Is there a decent rear strut brace out there
That shuld be about it, I'm sure theres some things I left out.

Keep in mind I am trying to loose as much weight as possible, make the chasis as stiff as possible, and the main use of this car is long track type driving(NOT an autocross setup) but will still be driven on the street occasionaly.

 

Pretty good list there!

I may be in the minority, but I think JIC/Cross coilovers are total crap. Based on my first hand experience with them on other cars. Really crappy valving and crappy spring quality. Lots of hype though. I'd look at the TSW custom KWs or maybe some AST coilovers.

Helix rear control arms look beefy and great for track driving.

Falken Azenis are not so great for track driving....they get greasy fast. Dunlop Z1 Star Specs are a good choice, and there are a few others.

IF you don't go with the Alta PSRS, then go with the Powerflex front control arm bushing. You do need to replace the stock one either way.

The Mini Mania steering thingy could be a good kit but I'd like to see it with tie rod extenders. The price isn't bad though.

TSW and WayMotorWorks make really great endlinks.

Not sure on the rear strut brace.

The 4 wheel kit for Wilwoods probably isn't necessary....just the front is enough. Though the full kit looks nice......

Be safe and thanks for your service!

- Andrew

 

Thanks for your input Andy, BTW Coming down a 10% grade at 80mph needs all the stoping power I can get(if not just to keep them cool, and lose weight doing it

 

Any ideas on spring rates for a car that only weighs 2400lbs

 

I didn't see any front camber plates on your list. Those are mandatory for what you are looking to do. The plates will offer you a lot more adjust-ability in setting your car up properly. Also a long track event with no added negative camber and soft tires will burn the outside edges off in a weekend if not sooner . There are several to choose from but as long as you are going with the Hotchkis bars you may as well get their camber plates as well.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

Hey Randy, The Cross coilovers have adjustable camber plates built in to the tops of the front 2, That is why there aren't any listed. The coils also include front end links, but from the pictures I think there are better out there. Good call tho, if they where not included I would do the Hotchkiss pices.

 

With hotchkis front and rear swaybars, and using street tires, I'd say around 8k/8k at most even for a dedicated track car. Maybe 7k/7k.

With r-comps or slicks you could go higher.

- Andrew

 

I like it a little softer than most people, I guess. What do you think a 7K(F) with 6K(R) would do. We have a lot of rough roads here in Colorado.

 

I do too

7k/6k would be very nice.

- Andrew

 

You are correct , I overlooked that. Good luck with the build and keep posting .

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

I take it by the lack of posts that this must be a pretty solid list of suspension parts, un like my ideas for making a few extra HP everyone must agree. I think I will order the PSRS and tack weld them in place, I really wont mind the squeeks they make(if I can even hear them over the LOUD a$$ exahust I have). I'm still deciding between ALTA and TSW end links. And think I might design my own rear brace, or just cage the thing if I am stuck over here for 18 months instead of 12 But I dont think I will make my weight goal with a cage(2400lbs loaded with me in it).

I'm still waiting for some good alignment specs aswell

 

You do have a pretty good list there and we share a lot of the components. I had the Alta PSRS system in for awhile and loved the results until they fell apart. I pulled them rather than try to fix them as many have.

As for alignment specs those vary depending on how you like your car to handle .

Mine are :

Street
front 1.5 neg rear 1 neg

Track
front 3 neg rear 1 neg

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

It will be a fun car! Though like Andyroo suggested in post #2, there is likely to be no benefit (other than looks) for the BBK in the rear. You gave the example of wanting effective brakes at 80MPH on a 10% grade, but when you hit the brakes hard going down that steep hill at speed, you are likely transferring 90+% of the car's weight to the front wheels. So the rear brakes will be doing very little. (Ever see a motorcycle lift the rear wheel when they really get on the front brakes?) However, the Wilwoods in front will provide a definite benefit!


In post #12 above, Randy (MaxiMini) gave you some good specs for camber, but didn't mention toe settings. For both track & street, you probably want a minimal amount of toe-in at the rear (1/16"), so that you don't find the back-end trying to "get out front", especially if there are twisties on hill you were talking about "flying" down.

Up in front, anywhere from zero toe to 1/16" toe-out will work well on the street with reasonable wear, and maybe a little more toe-out for track. I know autocrossers using 1/4" toe-out (and it will certainly improve corner turn-in on a tight autocross course), but you will need a tire sponsor to afford that on the street.

One more item for your equipment list: Infra-red tire temp gauge/reader. In the scale of your project, the cost is quite minor, and it will help you dial-in your camber settings (and tire pressures) for track. You would like to see relatively even temps across the face of each tire when you come in from a few hot laps. (Higher temps at the outside edge = more negative camber needed.)

just my 2¢,
- Jim

 

Thanks for the advice Jim.
I do have to admit that the rear Wilwoods are mostly for looks, but the HILL I do all my performance testing on(back in the sticks, maby sees 10 cars per day) has an elevation change of about 3700 feet with lots of, hair-pin drops, off camber, and compounded flat turns in its 7 mile length. I would say that 90% of the altitude is gained/lost in the first/last 4.5 miles so it gets pretty steep. I have heated up every set of brakes I have ever had on this road (front and rear) it is pretty bad when you have had to park your brand new EVO(with all its Brembo goodness) at the bottom for a half an hour just so your brakes can go from smoking to hot to cool enough to run.
I use my gears when I can but you always at some point need GOOD brakes, and having every little bit of them helps.
If it turns out that I dont need them, atleast they will fill out and make my 17" matte black Konig's look better.

 

The "Brembo goodness" will do the job, but the stock pads that your EVO comes fitted are not up to your hill & driving style. OEM pads strive for silent operation, adequate braking and low cost. Consider Hawk HP+ or Carbotech Bobcat replacements for your "spirited" street use vehicles.

With the effort you are putting into the MINI to make it fast, you may want to consider switching to a real race pad (at least on the front) for track use as some others on the forum do, and then back to street pads for day-to-day. On the street, real race pads are likely to howl with gentle city stops, scaring the old ladies in the crosswalk half-to-death. And the first stops when they are cold may be a bit "iffy". Do talk to your Wilwood supplier about pad options!! (If you haven't picked a supplier, talk to TCE. Tod has multiple Wilwood kits, with all parts, including SS hoses, as a package, and he is knowledgeable.)

 

I think that your goal is a bit optimistic. Major surgery is required. I'm trying to get to 2000 lbs dry with my racecar build. To get there, every non-essential ounce must be eliminated, lexan windows, all cf bodywork, etc.

Your suspension plan is solid. You won't want/need the steering amplifier unless you do a huge (3+ inches) drop. Then it can correct the change in roll center.

Good luck and stay safe.

 

Thanks Bean, I'm only 260 pounds off of my goal weight, right now it sits at 2660lbs with me and a full tank of gas. The A/C is falling out, I'm probably going to get a carbon hood, the heavy stock seats are geting replaced with Sparco's, not to mention all the suspension, brakes, wheels, tires and such are all lighter than stock. If I could even get to 2500 I would be happy.

The lightest cars make the fastest cars, and Chrome never got any one home!

 

you've done a good job to get it to that weight. I have a VIS "carbon fiber" hood. The fit is terrible. I will be making my own. It does save about 20 lbs on the end which is most difficult to trim down. AC compressor alone is about 10 lbs. If you get rid of all the associated parts, the losses are triple that. The last hundred pounds to lose are either labor intesive (stripping off sound damping, etc) or expensive (carbon fiber, light wheels, etc).
I'll be following along.

 

Sand Man !! SO you ARE alive ; just hiding?? You could have said ~~GOODBYEEE !! And WHAT do you "mean" by a full tank of "gas"?? Taking a bit of "advantage" aren't we ?? Heh Heh~~ Hey~~ Even IF you split ; it HAS been a week right now here in your "closet"~~~~~~ keep us posted ! It does lend itself to "concern". Also your dad sez he thinks you might be "farmin asphalt" I'd say plowin Sh** OBEY

 

Hey Bean, There are 2 carbon hoods avalable for the R53, the Vis, and SIEBON has one aswell. Im pretty sure they are both made at the same factory, but siebon tends to have a little more quality controll. There is a trade off tho, I have heard there clear coat sucks(it turns yellow prety fast), that realy doesnt bother me because even tho I hate painting over carbon it will be painted Flat Dark Silver to match the body of the car.

All my sound deadening goo is gone, unless there is some behind the headliner I lost quite a bit with my exahust setup, and swaping the batery out with an Odessey lost another 15lbs(not to mention it is now in the lowest part of the car, under the passanger seat)

Hey Fish I told yall in the other thread that I was gona do the suspension side for a while, Sorry to keep you in the dark.

 

"SAND MAN"~~ Anything IS better than nothin at all~~thanks !! OBEY

 

As suggested, talk to Todd at TCE. He will work out a fair deal for you. I have TCE/Wilwood 13" front and 11.75' rear. I change the front pads between street and track. I leave the same rear pads on all the time. I use Hawk HPS for street and Wilwood B for track.

For alignment I use:
Front: -2.0 camber and -0.14 Total Toe (toe-out)
Rear: -1.5 camber and 0 toe (or a little toe-in).

 

Thank You, to all who sugested TCE.
I just did a price check online and they will be Quite A Bit cheaper for the full kit that I want.(Yep the 13" FSL front kit with the 11.75 rear all in red) Needless to say that other company wont be getting my nearly $3K. Hopefully taxes and shiping wint be too bad.

Keep throwing alignment numbers out there, with the primary use of your car.

 

So its been a while, most of my list is bought and delivered or on the way. Only the 2 most expencive items remain(brakes/coilovers)
Anyhow I went to order my Falken RT-615's and while I wasn't looking the price on Discount Tire Direct jumped from $103.00 each to $148.00 each (that is one HE!! of a summertime mark up) So I went with my original plan. I had to sacrifice the exact size I was looking for and now my tires will be slightly taller than stock(raising overall gearing instead of lowering it like I wanted) But I picked up a set of 215/45/17 NITTO NT-01's for my track/street meet tires.

Theese tires are pretty much a street bike tire made for a car. Even the verry shallow tread pattern says it means buisness, or they can be shaved and the only visible tread at that point is two rings around the edge and a slick.

 

For What it's worth. I'll Second Andy on the Cross/Jic being junk. I also heard a rumor that JIC went under. I've got the AST's and even though they are on the pricey end they compare to a shock twice their price.

Also , brakes are overkill. I ran last season on Stock Calipers and Rotors with Hawk DTC60 front pads and stock rear pads. Worked just fine. 130mph to 60mph in 3 seconds down hill. You almost need to laugh at people doing big brake kits on street cars and claiming it stops better. The stopping power on 99% of the cars out there is limited by your tires. If your running on a Narrow (anything that fits a mini) Street tire odds are your brakes are more then enough. It takes a pretty good amount of abuse to boil fluid and get the brakes to fade. That kind of abuse is near impossible to duplicate on the street unless your purposely driving around dragging the brakes trying to do it. Usually a set of GOOD race pads and a Fluid change to a race fluid will make most brakes be more then enough on track. Look at SCCA rules. They don't allow brake changes on Touring or Showroom stock cars. These are cars running at race pace with no brake ducting on STOCK rotors and calipers (only this year did they allow stainless lines) for 45 min + races only changing the pads and the fluid on R-compound tires. Cars from Toyota Celica's to Corvette Z06's.
Another Great Example. The Honda Guys ran Touring 3 Honda S2000's at the 25hrs of thunderhill this year with Stock calipers, Stock rotors, and Cobalt pads. and NO BRAKE DUCTING. They made 25hrs on the OEM stuff. Had to change pads once.
Now with all that said... I can understand them on VERY fast cars or heavy cars doing long races.
Big brakes are for the Bling factor. And they slow you down cause they are more rotating weight....