Hey, im new to the forums and new to Minis. Picked up my 2010 MCS just about a month ago now and the ONLY thing i dont like about it is the damn sound system... its pretty terrible and im not at all an audiophile in any shape or form...

So, after reading LOTS on this forum for the past week of what sort of speakers to buy, im still torn...
I dont know if i should just go the easy/cheap route and buy coaxials and have a ridiculously easy install or if i should pump some more money out of my wallet and get component speakers.

I have narrowed it down to a choice of 1 of each and i am determined to order a set of front speakers TONIGHT!! (hopefully after reading your advice)

Amazon has Polk Db651s on sale for 34 bucks today (cyber monday steal imo)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...X0DER&v=glance
From what i read, these are pretty damn good coaxial speakers.

My other choice is the Alpine Type-R SPR-17S which is 140 at amazon...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...Q57PZ&v=glance

Now heres my dilemma... I am complete audio noob.. i dont really know much about sound systems... I do like CLEAN Sound (clean, not loud) with a decent bass kick (i dont need a sub to satisfy my bass needs)...

I know you audiophiles will automatically tell me to buy the component set but my question is.. is it really worth it? will i REALLY notice a big difference between the 2? its about 100 bucks more and much more of a hassle to install... but if its truly worth it and will make a world of difference, i am willing to spend on it..

just a frame of reference, my last 2 cars (nissan maxima, and infiniti g35) both has stock Bose systems and they were both definitely good enough for me...

 

Coax vs. Compo is is less important to sound quality than the quality of the speakers. I've not listened to either of those, so can't comment on them.

Where the coax vs. compo issue becomes important is with how they fit into the existing system and how to install.

Your MINI has two speakers in each door. To replace both, you would want a 6.5" in the lower position, and a 4" (or a tweeter) in the upper position. Just putting a 6.5" in the lower position will be disappointing if you connect it to the speaker wires for that location. MINI designed the lower speaker to be the subwoofer of the system. So, you would only be improving the low end of the audio.

You could disconnect the upper speaker and use its wires to connect to a coax 6.5" in the lower position. However, having a tweeter down by your feet is not going to be that good for the high notes.

 

buy the PPI356 comps at sonicelectonix...Enter Pumpkin as a coupon and get them for $119/

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...PPI+356CS.html

 

Also keep in mind that the base amplifier integrated into the radio is about 15W per channel.

Those PPI356 comps aren't particularly efficient at 85-86 dB. Stay away from speakers that require more power than you have to drive them properly. I'd try to find some components with sensitivities higher than 93 dB. A difference of 10dB will be perceived as being twice as loud.

 

Would you mind explaining it a bit more to me? 15W per channel means what exactly?

Again, im not really looking for loud... im over the whole blast the music as loud as i can phase... is 88dB on the alpines i showed really too little? any idea what the dB is on the stock speakers (non-HIFI)?

 

sensitivity is measured as how loud the speaker will play with 1 watt of power measured from a distance of 1 meter. He is right in 85-86db is not terribly efficient....but they should get plenty loud with your stock amplifier.

He suggests finding a set that is 95-96 db(10db more efficient) but that is not realistic...91-93db is possible...and they will play louder than the PPI's...but they will both play loud enough to make you want to turn it down.

To answer your original question....yes buying comps is worth it...you get dedicated woofers and tweeters plus an crossover network to feed the signal to the proper speaker.

 

Very little power. Sort of like having an engine that puts out 50 hp. You don't want to use it to drive a truck. Best to put it in a motorcycle. The amp I put in my MINI produces 75W per channel for 4 ohm speakers.-

I very much doubt it. The 4 ohm Image Dynamics CXS64 V.2 have a sensitivity of 90 db and the MINI HIFI amp could barely drive them loud enough to hear them over engine idle. No way that a standard audio is going to drive the 87 db 4 ohm Precision Power PPI 356CS you are recommending, nor the Alpine Type-R SPR-17S (also 87 db 4 ohm).

How is a coaxial so different, with its woofer, tweeter, and crossover? Coaxial just means they tweeter and woofer share the same axis--their centers are aligned. What matters is how good the woofer, tweeter, and crossover are. For example the CXS64 V.2 have a tweeter that can be mounted coaxial, or separately. They don't lose quality if you mount the tweeter coaxially--which is the preferred location.

 

[quote=Robin Casady;2927009


I very much doubt it. The 4 ohm Image Dynamics CXS64 V.2 have a sensitivity of 90 db and the MINI HIFI amp could barely drive them loud enough to hear them over engine idle. No way that a standard audio is going to drive the 87 db 4 ohm Precision Power PPI 356CS you are recommending, nor the Alpine Type-R SPR-17S (also 87 db 4 ohm).


How is a coaxial so different, with its woofer, tweeter, and crossover? Coaxial just means they tweeter and woofer share the same axis--their centers are aligned. What matters is how good the woofer, tweeter, and crossover are. For example the CXS64 V.2 have a tweeter that can be mounted coaxial, or separately. They don't lose quality if you mount the tweeter coaxially--which is the preferred location.[/quote]

1...that is pure CRAP....if you could not drive the ID comps to play over your engine idle than you were doing something completely wrong. I have $700 pioneer comps in my mini with standard audio and they have a sensitivity of 89db. powering them with the factory radio they got VERY loud....powering them with my soundtream amp they got also very loud but they sound better with the soundstream amp for sure...but not much louder. Do your homework buddy.

2. I didn't say that mounting a nice tweeter coaxially would sound bad...but instead i said that a nice comp set with a dedicated crossover is going to sound better than a cheap coax speaker(usually with no crossover) like the one the OP was looking at because it had better drivers AND a dedicated crossover network.

 

damn, you 2 are telling me 2 completely different things...

im now leaning more towards the component set and now my concern is... will they be loud enough?

Robin Casady, youre saying they wont get louder than the engine idle and miniSQ, youre saying that they will get VERY loud...

...aand i have no idea what im doing... anyone else care to chime in? either one of you guys have anything else to add?

btw, thanks for the advice thus far... its been much appreciated.

 

+1

I also wanted to upgrade my front speakers leaving the std hi fi amp. I was looking for Infinitys or Focals. I went with an audio tech and he said that my amp wasnt going to be enough to power any aftermarket speakers other than the paper stock ones. He recommended to leave them as they are and go for an amp + sub to handle the bass. I bought the Boss Bass600 for 89.00 at Amazon. Let see how it goes. I will still be unhappy with my stock speakers.

 

+1

I also wanted to upgrade my front speakers leaving the std hi fi amp. I was looking for Infinitys or Focals. I went with an audio tech and he said that my amp wasnt going to be enough to power any aftermarket speakers other than the paper stock ones. He recommended to leave them as they are and go for an amp + sub to handle the bass. I bought the Boss Bass600 for 89.00 at Amazon. Let see how it goes. I will still be unhappy with my stock speakers.

 

Are your Pioneer comps 2 ohm or 4 ohm?

My HIFI system was connected to 2 ohm Infinity Kappas with a sensitivity of 93 db. They were fine, but not quite as loud as the factory speakers (not that that was necessary). Disconnected the Kappas, and connected the ID crossover to the upper speaker wires. Not hearing it over idle was a bit of an exaggeration, but it was not sufficient volume for listening while driving.

If you want full range going to the crossover, it is necessary to use the upper speaker wires. If you use the lower wires for the woofer, and upper wires for the tweeter, you don't have anything to drive midrange.

What you said was, "...yes buying comps is worth it...you get dedicated woofers and tweeters plus an crossover network to feed the signal to the proper speaker." which doesn't say anything about the relative quality of the two. It says comps are better than coax. It also implies that coax don't have a dedicated woofer and tweeter, nor crossovers. Not sure what you mean by "dedicated" but the real difference between comps and coax is location. While comps can be better than coax in quality, you can also find coax that are better than many comps.

 

I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. True, it wont have enough power to drive them well, but there are speakers that will produce reasonable volume with the standard factory amp. I'm just very skeptical that 87 db speakers will work.

 

I'm right and he's wrong

No seriously...i am saying that if you buy the comps you will have decent volume...plenty loud enough for rocking out while driving...sure there will be times where you want to turn it up louder and you will want it cleaner too...thats when you buy an aftermarket amp...and you will already have the comps installed....no need to upgrade both.

 

You willing to buy the speakers off of him if you are wrong?

 

yup!!! i just bought an Xtant/morel tweeter( slightly different than the one in the set)...so i am thinking of buying the set anyway just to use the woofer and crossover. $119 for that woofer and crossover is steal.

 

I will have to mostly agree with miniSQ on the matter of the volume.

But i will say this about the the perseption of volume.

Using a base stereo at 15W per channel.

1. What is LOUD to others is only loud.

2. I am sure that if you are doing 65 mph on the hiway and have the windows down the volume would be rather low, but if sitting in the driveway with the windows up and the car idling the volume will be above what is normally recommended for your ears.

3. Going from 15W per channel to 75 watt per channel using the same speakers will only gain you a volume increase of approximately 2 times as loud. Roughly for every 3 times the wattage will you get a doubling of the volume. so go to 225 watts to double the volume of the 75 watt amp.

 

This is totally untrue for both the base and HiFi systems.

In the Base system both front door speakers are driven with the exact same signal.

In the HiFi system the 6.5 inch speaker has a cut off above 100HZ and the Mids have a cutoff below 100HZ, so the signal to the 4" driver in the door is not full range.

In most, but not all cases, the comps will be a better speaker than coax. Only very cheap comps are worse than any coax.

Also the the design of coax speakers is only to get the drivers into a smaller space. The sound dispersion of two speakers in the same plane is highly contested by many of the best speaker designers. Mounting speakers inside one another as done with coax speakers is actually worse for the sound wave that come out of the woofer section than when it is mounted some where to the side of the tweeter. Also in most coax the tweeter is not place in the same plane front to back as the woofer and thus the time alignment of the sound waves will also be incorrect.

As for the crossover network on coax, only very very expensive coax have anything more than a capacitor to keep the low freq from getting to the tweeter.

Comps have full crossover networks rather than just a capacitor so they will do a much better job of keeping the correct signal to the correct speaker.

 

haha.. well, you will be glad to know that i just purchased the Alpine SPR-17S Component set...

hopefully everything works out and the install wont be that much of a pain in the ***...

 

That does not match my experience with the CXS64 V.2 - Image Dynamics 6.5" 4 ohm Component System.

 

Are you doing it yourself? Plan about 6 hours....and get a door pulling tool so you don't damage the door clips....they are VERY robust and take some serious muscle to pull them free. Plus there are a LOT of them.

The drivers side midrange pod is a challenge too....the mirror adjuster is finicky.

I would suggest not doing any rewiring...just tap into the factory wiring and mount the corossover in the armrest.

Good luck and let us know how you like the alpines...

 

So would you take the feed from the center or lower speaker and input that into the crossover?

Also, how would the F/R channel swap affect all of this?

 

That depends on which system you have.

If you have the Base System then you could use either the 4" or the 6.5" wires as they carry the same information.

If you have the HiFi then you do not want to use a crossover as the crossover is built into the amp.

If you have the HiFi system it will make no difference.

If you have the Base System you will get freqs below 100 hz now to the front channels and this will make the system sound better.

But note if you have PDC then the rear beep will come from the front speakers.

 

What do you do with the unused wires? also, would throwing in another set of front speakers be possible, and if so, would it make a big difference?

 

I have the base system. So doing component speakers being fed off either of the lines and doing a F/R swap sounds like the way to go. I do have the bluetooth back so the phone audio would go through the back speakers...but i am ok w/ that.