I have an '06 MCS with stock brakes. The stock brakes, well, they kinda suck. Fade pretty severely after just a couple of hard stops from speed, and pretty squishy. I'm not autocrossing, racing or doing track days, just want something that has good bite, consistent performance and doesn't fade from spirited driving! It's pretty #$*%& alarming when that last 30mph takes a looooong time to scrub off!

I don't have the $$$ in the budget for a serious upgrade this year, so I'm thinking replacing the stock pads with something a bit less bad is in order.

It looks like Hawk HPS pads and Mintex Redbox are well thought of here. EBC Greenstuff are well thought of among motorcyclists but I don't know how good they are for car applications.

Also, would steel brake lines help reduce the squishy feel of the brakes? Or is that just an inherent limitation of the calipers?

If you're a spirited street driver looking to improve the stock brakes for relatively short money, what would you recommend?

Thanks!

 

Try the Carbotech Bobcat 1521 for the front wheels first.

With good brake pads you should not need stainless brake lines for street use.

 

Any kind of performance pad will eliminate the bite of the stock brakes. The point of performance brakes is to give you modulation and heat tolerance & dissipation. Meaning, the farther you push into the pedal, the more braking force you have, as opposed to the on-off nature of the stock brakes. Most performance pads need a certain amount of heat to work their best. Cold performance is less, but they can take higher temps and still work.

Stainless steel lines will drastically improve pedal feel. I would highly recommend them.

I have Hawk performance ceramic pads, Powerslot rotors, Goodridge stainless steel lines, and Motul RBF 600.

Edit: Keep all the pads and rotors matching to maintain the brake bias.

 

I am not sure this is the low cost solution that the OP asked about? Just working a first solution so he can feel the difference before spending more money.

I would say brake pads then rotors before stainless brake lines.

PS: I often do not run the same compound front and back because the heat is different from front to back. For example, I run Carbotechs XP10 in front and XP8 in back with no trouble with brake bias at all.

 

I was merely answering the guy's questions about performance brakes, covering all angles and giving ideas. It can certainly be done in stages.

 

And to reinforce what nabeshin said - most performance street pads (certainly the quiet low dust ones) reduce initial bite vs. the OEM pads... which some folks who first get them interpret as LESS braking... they don't throw you into the dash when you touch the pedal like the OEMs can when they're cool.

Some autocross pads (like the CarboTech AX6) have that "boat anchor" aggressive bite and heat tolerance - but can be pretty noisy and very dusty.

Given the OP's description of what they're looking for, and their disdain for "squishy" brakes and pedal travel, I'm concerned that the CT Bobcats may not make them happy (though I love mine, they take some getting used to).

Might be happier with the Hawk HPS or something similar.

 

Understood. Your solution is a good one.

 

Once you are used to the brakes, they are fun. You are right, brakes should not be just off or on.

OP, you can remove a lot of the brake travel and squishy feeling with judicious brake bleeding. I think a number of us in this forum use the Motive brake bleeder and it works. You may try that first.

 

Lots of informative responses -- thanks guys!

Short version: It sounds like a set of Hawk HPS pads will be the first thing to try!

To supply a little more background: i am the second owner of this car. Original owner had put on Wilwoods, which were as you'd expect just phenomenal. We swapped them back to stock for cost reasons -- they and the lightweight wheels that cleared them were worth more than my budget allowed for. But oh well That work was done by a trusted BMW performance shop, so i would expect (hope) they were properly bled when they replaced the fluid!

I don't like the stock brakes' susceptibility to fade, their squishyness, or their lousy feedback. They are, quite frankly, below the performance levels i had in my old cheap saturn Because I've had better with economy-grade components, I am certain I can get decent performance without spending a boatload of money I don't have in the fun budget this season!

The Motive bleeder looks interesting, though their web site is useless if you don't already know what it is. Looks like a pressurized tank for forcing brake fluid into the master cylinder? Certainly looks like a cleaner system to use than a Mity-Vac.

Thanks again!

 

Alot of great ideas here!

I'd agree that a good brake fluid flush with a high quality fluid like ATE Superblue or Type 200, is the perfect companion to your new brake pad selection!

2 pads were mensioned, and happen to be pads I personally use.

Hawk HPS - great initial bite and less dust than stock

Hawk Performance Ceramic - Fimer pedal, a bit less brake bite, and lighetr colored dust than HPS.

I use the HPS, and I run the performance ceramics on wth wife's ride.
I break harder, and wash my wheels more often.. than I was her's

Alex

 

I have great luck with the Motive brake bleeder. Its been discussed on the forum, and I fully respect Todd's opinions on gravity bleeding vs pressure bleeding.

I have had luck with the motive myself - and they are a great company to work with!

 

Since the Carbotechs have been talked about above I'll chime in.

IHMO the CT 1521 Bobcat pads work great for 99% of drivers, however that 1% of street drivers that hit brakes later then most all the time may over tax the 1521. I have had one local customer that wanted 1521's but knowing how he drives we put AX6's on his car and they work very well. Plus his black wheels help too.

Based on the OP I don't think I'd encourage 1521's. The AX6 or some Hawks would be better.

 

One little thing not being mentioned with the Hawk HPS pad, NOISY as a RTA bus in downtown Cleveland in January!!! I'm with slinger688, try the Bobcats.

 

I don't understand the "squishy and fade" parts of the OP's post. I've found the brakes on the R53 MINI to be exemplary, including substantial time spent at speed and under extreme duress on the 2.5 mile roadcourse at Heartland Park.

I'm thinking, turn the rotors lightly to clean them up, sand your stock pads lightly to get rid of any glaze (I use my belt sander) and change to the high temp ATE Blue fluid and bleed properly and then see what you think, before spending money on pads and brake lines. If the OEM stuff is in good order, you should be happy with them in the circumstances you describe.

 

Hmm. My Hawk HPS pads are pretty quiet.
I have the Powerslot Cryo rotors instead of stock, but I doubt that
they affect the noise level.

 

Get some SS brake lines.