I just had my birthday and I recived some money to spend on my MINI. What I want to do is a 22mm rear sway bar from Alta and lowering springs. However I am going to most likely have to make a choice between these.

What I consider comfortable I am finding is very different than what most say is. I like a stiff suspension and touchy response.

As far as I can tell the alta sway bar is well liked and seems to be a good product.

For lowering springs I am looking at m7's or Alta's. I understand coilovers are the best choice but I can't do them right now.

I have a 2005 r50 with ~40,000 so the stock suspension is getting mushier over time. I love the handling but I am noticing more body roll in the corners.

If there are options that can get me under $300 for both that would be awesome.

Thanks in advance!

 

When you do springs, put in Ireland fixed camber plates ($180). Give extra 1.25 negative camber and they are much better made than the stock units, which are probably worn at 40K miles.

 

Thanks for the advice. I also switched my choice on rear sway bar to MINI-Madness' because of the forged end rather than Alta's welded.

 

+1 on camber plates. These will help the front tires wear more evenly if you do a lot of hard driving.

With a cooper you may not need a 22mm. You need to consider the ratio of the front sway bar to the rear (among dozens of other things really). Basically, because the cooper has a smaller front bar you may not need such a big rear one. A stock Cooper S bar would in fact be a large improvement!

For springs, read around one the TSW's. If you like a firmer ride avoid the m7's, they are progressive springs.

 

I have the sport suspension on the standard Cooper which is the same as the "S" suspension I believe. Either way HP doesn't have much to do with cornering ability afaik. So if anything I will need to also add a bigger front bar some day.

 

My advice to anyone with an unmodified MINI is to attend a few autocross events before changing anything. Especially if you can get a ride-along in a well-driven HS or GS car. The MC and MCS rule these roosts, and are less competitive in classes that allow more mods. If you love it, then let the $300 become that start of you R-comp fund. If not, you'll at least walk away with a much better understanding of what you're trying to improve on.

For a more "touchy response," head to your preferred alignment shop. Stock alignment is toe in front and rear. Toe out in front and neutral or a hair toe out in the rear helps turn in a lot. Staggering tire pressures goes a long way towards making these cars more neutral near their limits

If anything is getting tired on your car suspension-wise, it would be the struts. Koni and Bilstien make replacements which play well with stock springs and should firm up the ride.

A note on R50 suspension: it's the "Sport Suspension Plus" option that is equivalent to the R53 suspension. "Sport Suspension" is standard for R50s.

Also, -1 for a stiffer front bar. On an open diff. FWD car this will really hurt the car's ability to put power down on corner exit.

 

Thank you for the info, I have done one autoX event and it was so much fun. I doubt I will get into it serious enough to purchase rcomp at this point. I like driving to the event not having to change much other than tire pressure, have some fun then leave.

Now as of now I had been thinking lowering springs (I like the look) and a rear sway bar (I am jumping between IE hollow and 22mm MINI-Madness).

That being said, should I rather be looking at struts and springs instead? I am thinking struts will be above what I can spend at this time.

The biggest complaint I have right now is a wiggling feeling I get going into and coming out of turns. I have been able to make every turn I have taken, but it feels very unstable entering and exiting. This is also something I am noticing more than I did when the car was at 35,000 when I bought it used. This may be due to something wearing, or me paying more attention.

 

Sounds like some failing bushings and or ball joints Mitch.
I'll PM you in a bit.

 

Have fun in ST . Wheels, tires, and alignment will still net you more performance than the other mods being discussed (after addressing the maintenance issues onasled alluded to of course), and you'll spend a lot less on something that will last a lot longer and that you can enjoy looking at a lot more often (vs the tire stack that sits in my garage 350+ days/year). Good luck.

 

I recently got a used set of Enkie J10's and some UHP summer tires. I have no idea if an allignment has been done since the car was new in 2005. I know one hasn't been done since I bought it last year. I have no idea what to ask for in that situation.

I look forward to a PM or further information about worn parts. Especially a way to check for wear or failing other than just replacing.

Although I really like the look of a lowered MINI I am leaning towards repairing worn parts and the best rear sway bar I can buy. Practicality is winning over looks I guess.

 

I think what Salemminidriver is getting at is "IF" you want to autox a Mini, the stock form is most competitive. If you want a neutral handling Mini (and don't want to drive around with 50psi of pressure in the rear tires) then a rear sway bar is your best bet. You could go with lowering springs as well. If you like your handling predictable then stay away from progressive rate springs, TSW makes a nice set that lowers just a little (3/4") and are cold wound and linear. I've been autoxing for just over 2 years (yes in ST) and I have a blast. Sure there is the occasional $5k 89' Honda civic that just wipes out all competition but I'ts much more fun in a Mini (AT LEAST IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE IT'S GOING TO FALL APART ON COURSE LIKE A HONDA DOES!!!). As far as toe settings go, if you want a bit more "twitchyness" to the steering then set front toe to 1/16" out, and rear to 1/16" in. The out toe in front will help the car turn in easier the toe in on the rear will help with high speed straight line stability. It's a compromise that has worked well for me while not suffering from excessive tire wear.

Hope this helps.

BTW I'm using the Alta 22mm adjustable bar since I was planning a larger front bar. The adjustable bar has allowed me to make changes to the suspension while my skill level increases and still keep the car as close to neutral as possible.

 

Getting gored by a $1000 Civic with 4X it's value in suspension, wheels, and tires is a hazard in ST. That said, it seems like a fun place to play, and it sounds like the OP is making an informed decision in moving on from stock.

I'd love to take a run in a MINI built to the limits of ST, SP, or P rules. The ST or SP car would make a great dual purpose/daily driver as well. I'm not in a position to fund its creation, and, at least for now, it's fun to run with the other MINIs (the one local STX/DSP car reversed his mods last season to run with us in GS).

I'd go with a higher rate rear bar in a heartbeat if I could. It bugs me that (in stock classes) front bars are open and rear bars are off limits.

I think everyone is on the same page as far as some amount of toe out being optimal up front. I go with rear toe out to help the car rotate as it is one of the few effective options available to me. There are trade-offs: reduced stability under hard braking, and accelerated tire wear. With spring rates and anti-roll bar rates better optimized, it's a different situation I'm sure. Maybe try 0 toe as a starting point, and go in or out from there depending on how the car feels to you. I suggested out based on your stated preference for "touchy response."

 

This conserns me a bit as if this is true my "fun" money might end up having to go to replace parts I already have I may stop in at a mechanic and see if they can tell what the story is with those parts. I will however hold off on an alignment until after I decide on lowering or not.

Another lowering issue to think about it the fact that I live where it snows and this is my daily driver year long...

EDIT: After Google searching about ball joints, I have noticed it pulling to the left. This has become more evident since switched to 17" wheels so I figured it was just part of that. Looks like I may need new ball joints. I wonder if this is under warranty for CPO.

 

Mitch, sorry, busy morning here.
How many miles on the car?
It seems you've never done an alighnment, so I might start with that to see if that's the issue, and at that time your aligner guy can check the bushings and ball joints. Best to go get a quote from them on what all this stuff might cost.
If you are feeling that the car's handling is geting worse, then no aftermarket spring or bar will help. It's a bummer, I know, but you'd better find the sorce of this issue before you drop a dime on the "goodies".

 

Civics are what they are...a polished turd that has a 300lb weight advantage. I guess if Mini wanted to they could use cheaper lighter guage steel for frame and body panels, but I'm glad they didn't, it makes a much safer car if you don't cut those corners. Having said that I don't give them much thought !!

Mitch,
I have an R50 with 81k miles and I need to replace the right ball joint and both lower control arm bushings. I was told it was rare to se a Mini (that's driven like it was stolen) over 40k miles that didn't need these bushings replaced, so I'm sure they need to be replaced, it's just not something of a safety issue more of a feeling issue but excessive wear can result in futher damage. If you can do the bushings yourself that would be best if not the Mini dealer could charge as much as $1,000.00 for the work.

 

Thanks for the input. I will have it looked at and I am going to call the service department because I am hoping this can be under warranty. If that ends up being the case I will put on the lowering springs before it is taken in (after making sure they will still do the work). This way the alignment can be done once and I may not have to pay for it.

Ps. I have about 42,000 miles and I am not afraid to drive it hard so I am guessing it is time. As for poly bushings I am not quite convinced they are necessary for my needs I would rather spend that money on other things.

Thanks everyone for your help so far.

 

If you do not need to spend your $300 on replacement parts and you auto-x for fun and do not care much about being moved up a class, I would suggest the following for better handling for under $300.
1. IE Fixed Camber Plates ($180)
2. 4 Wheel Alignment to your specs not OEM specs. ($80)

When you have a little more money, then procure linear lowering springs such as TSW or Swift (NAM group buy in work). I suggest you watch the NAM Marketplace to get new or slightly used springs at a good price. Even though not linear I previously had H&R springs that lowered the car nicely and worked fine. I sold my used H&R springs for $50. You can probably find good springs for around $100 on NAM Marketplace.

After a good alignment and more front negative camber, you may find that you do not need a large rear sway bar or may be able to use a larger stock bar such as a 17mm (R53) or 18mm (R56) that you can buy very cheap on NAM Marketplace without the need for an adjustable rear bar. Of course an adjustable rear bar (such as a 20mm) would be best because you can adjust for street and auto-x but that is more money.

 

...and double A-arm front suspension vs. McStruts...and room for a lot of tire...and they are non-precious to the point where owners will hog out the fenders to accommodate sticky steamrollers without a second thought (you don't often hear about MINI owners cutting up their cars to make more tire fit). That said, they don't do anything for me either.

 

If your mileage is already in the 40k range, you may want to consider shocks first or a entry level coilover kit. Lowering springs on tired, worn shocks just makes things worse. The shocks control the springs. If they are worn or blown, the car will be ever more difficult to control and less fun to drive.

If you want to be competitive in autox, you need to mod to the class you want to run. Konis and stock sport springs are a good combination for a close to stock class and lots of fun.

Spend some time finding a good alignment shop near you. Talk to the autox guys and find a good place that will do an accurate alignment. You'd be surprised how many crappy alignments I've had from supposedly good shops.

 

I don't really care about being competitive in autox I just go for the change to drive less than legal on streets. If I really cared about winning I would upgrade to an "s" because it is a losing battle trying to keep up with them. I am looking for mods that make it just more fun for me at least.

My step now is to find out how worn the parts I have now are, then go from there.

 

That's what I figured you felt about autox that's cool.

BTW I beat the GS "S" all the time with my ST MC, and the pax adjustment is nearly the same.

 

Ok I drove around some last night and this morning. The feeling I don't like is from the rear end slopping around before and after a turn. I can feel no play in the front. I also am thinking that since I switched from stock 15" wheels to 17/7.5 my alignment really needs to be looked at. I assume as part of the MINI Next program they would check alignment but either way it needs to be done.

I am going to hold off on springs because there really isn't anything that seems to fit my wants except the possible swift lowering spring so I will wait and save up for them.

With the birthday money (I can justify alignment with other money as it is "maintenance") I am going to order the MINI-Madness rear sway. Next time I am at the dealer I am going to push to get my bushings and ball joints checked out and replaced under the CPO warranty. I am sure the poly bushings are a great step up but I don't think I will use them to their potential and I have other mods. I would rather do first.

So as of now alignment, sway bar, warranty work, and saving for swift springs.

Thanks for all the help so far, any comments?

 

Oh it is completely doable autox is more about driving skill than power. Unless you are driving against others with very high skill.

At this point there are several "s" drivers that autox in my area that are very serious and very good. So me being a novice and lower HP really puts me at a disadvantage.

What is the pac adjustment? I really do value your input I just do not have the funds to do all the good stuff at once right now.

 

I would still suggest front camber plates (IE fixed plates) before a rear sway bar. The fixed camber plates and rear bar are about the same price but I feel that the camber plates provide a larger benefit.

On my first Mini I did the rear sway bar first (M-M 25mm hollow) then I added front camber plates because I was not satisifed with just the rear bar. On my second Mini I did front camber plates first and I still have not done a rear sway bar because I am pretty satisified (but I have the JCW suspension which is pretty stiff and probably contributes to not needing a larger rear bar).

If you have a dealership check/adjust our alignment, they might not want to adjust to your specs and you really do not want it adjusted to the OEM specs. It is worth having an independent alignment shop adjust the alignment to your specs but make sure they will adjust the rear toe before they start because it is a big pain. As others have suggested, you probably want a little total toe-out at the front and zero toe or a little toe-in at the rear. On the front I specify -0.07 degrees toe per side and -0.14 degrees total toe (toe-out). On the rear I specify 0.0 degrees toe per side but I ended up with a little toe-in at the rear. -0.14 degrees is about equal to 1/16" for a 25" diameter tire. For a 24" tire, 1/16" is closer to -0.15.

 

I am going to an independent shop this afternoon to see if they will do it. I will probably ask them to do something like you asked, but I know very little about alignment so I am worried I won't actually make any sense and end up with something I didn't want. However my goal here is to not have to keep the steering wheel turned to the left a little to go straight any more. So I am looking for about 1/16" out in the front and 0-1/16" in in the rear. Hopefully when I say this it makes sense to them.

I also do not really get what new camber plates do for me other than add adjustment. I also have read so much about the rear sway bar here I feel it must be a great mod. Especially if I am going from a stock Cooper bar. I have a feeling the bar on your JCW may not need as much improving as mine.

I also see that many coil-overs come with camber plates so I may also just save up for them.