Hello,

Last weekend I replaced the all 4 brake rotors, pads and sensors. It was easy and I didn't have any problems. When I took the mini out for testing the new brakes, the car was slow to stop, having to press hard on the pedal. After few miles it got better but not to the point as before the brake job. I have been using the car for few days, and I don't like the way the brakes are working, still need to press hard on the pedal and is not the same braking power as before. I got the rotors from brakeperformance.com with ceramic pads. I didn't bleed the brakes. I can feel that if I press hard on the pedal, it runs a little to the bottom. My question is, how can I get my brakes back?
2005 Mini Cooper S.

Thanks

 

Ceramic Brakes don't provide the same stopping power (I'm told) as organic compound brakes. The organic ones that came with the car, leave more dust on your wheels than the new ceramic ones will, but as a result, they will also stop your car faster. Think of it like this: If a formula 1 car has hard rubber tires on it as it goes into a tight corner at high speeds, it is more likely to slip than if it were to have a softer rubber compound tire on it. The softer tire provides more grip, but doesn't last as long.

Its the same with brakes, the ceramic pads will last you a very long time, and won't wear as fast as the regular ones you had on before, but the sacrifice for less dust and longer life is less stopping power. I would suspect that this is the issue you are running into, as if you can still slow the car at all, it doesn't sound like it would be a hydraulic defect in the brake line, just a coefficient of friction issue.

Just my $0.02.

 

did you bed them in? You may have also glazed the pads. Look up the bed in steps for the pads and or rotors you have, do that. If the Pads are glazed they will not bed in. You will need to remove them, hit them with sand paper to break the layer of glaze and then bed them in.

 

Ceramic brakes are lousy when cold, heat makes them perform much better, and they also resist heat fade better. just the nature of the beast

 

It's always a good idea to bed your new pads. Good info here
http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

 

Not my experience if the pads have been bed well.
I have Hawk ceramic and they have about the same stopping power of the OEM.

For the OP, check to see if you glazed the pads.
If you did you can sand the glaze off and bed the pads.

 

i agree, check for glazing. it's critical to get them properly bedded from the get-go :(

 

I have read and been told by others that cermaic brakes were lousy also. I put on Carbotech Bobcats which are ceramics (right?) and they are easily as good and better than stock. Did great at the autocross last weekend.

 

Its actually manufacture and model specific. for instance Hawk has a bed in for their ferrocarbon products, and recomend gentle driving on their ceramic products. A true ceramic pad because if its insulation properties can glaze a rotor easier on the 1st day it meets its new cast iron.

Alex

 

There is a coating on your new rotors. I had the same problem when I changed mine. I went with new rotors and Hawk HPS pads. It was so bad I couldn't trust it for the 20+ mile drive to work. I ended up putting the OEM pads back in and ordering a set of OEMish pads on eBay for < $30. The OEM pads worked fine from the first application, and when the new ones came in they were fine also. Next I put the HPS pads back in and guess what... they worked fine also.

I concluded that the HPS pads just couldn't cut through the coating.

I haven't had any problems with them and would recommend them, just run the OEM pads around the block a few times first, if your changing rotors at the same time.

BTW, what rotors are you running?

 

Thats what non-chlorinated brake kleen is for!

Alex

 

^^^ or buy pads and rotors without coatings

 

Most pads shouln't have any. A bit of degassing from binding resins mabey. Any raw cast iron will be coated or they'd rust on the shelf.

Brake kleen after the install prior to the burnishing is a good idea, removing any grease or oils you may have accidentally gotten on the combo during install, as well as anti rust coatings.

Alex

 

I bought the PREMIUM DIMPLED & SLOTTED (BLACK) from brakeperformance.com, and got their ceramic pads (for an extra $20). As you can see, the rotors where painted black, so I wonder if all that paint now is embedded with the pads. Unfurtunately, I got rid of the OEM pads. I am going to remove the pads this weekend, sand them, lightly sand the rotors and try to bed pads again. If it does not work, I am getting a new set of pads.

 

I had a set of Morse ceramic pads once, no dust, no noise and NO STOPPING! ($75 at NAPA) Switched to the Carbotech 1521/Bobcat ($99 back then) after that (Nov. '05) and just changed them out in May '08, 65,000+ miles. Great stopping power, low dust, didn't have to change my rotors either. Check 'em out!

 

Can we conclude than unless you are racing or autocrossing your MINI, ceramic pads are probably not a good idea?

 

^^^

Nope we can't conclude ALL ceramic pads are not good. We can conclude on this thread and a few others of late, that "FREE" or "Low Cost" ceramic pads should be avoided for any and all cars/trucks/suv and your kids bike. This is just a lesson in the old stand by, "You get what you pay for."

Carbotech makes great ceramic pads for low dust street with better stopping power and great AutoX pads too. We have hard core track pads too. www.buycarbotechpads.com

 

Ceramics = lower dust and less brake power. Not ideal for autoX or track - ceramics are excelent insulators, and force the heat back into your rotors. Carbon/Ferro-carbon/Semi- metaltics are among the better choices for agressive driving.

On the ceramic tangent - most pads offer some concentrataion of ceramic in them, the amount in the friction material formulas can vary, yeilding diffrent charagterstircs from every brand / recepie.

Calling pads ceramic is a recent "buzz phrase" ususally coupled with pads that make less dust, and lighter colored dust - as a result of their additional ceramic content.

Of the cermaics I offer Hawk Performce ceramic and Akebono Euro-ceramics are the best choices for higher performance ceramics.

Unless your car is set up OEM like some Porsches' for large braking stsems designed for ceramics- you may be better served by a carbon blended pad for autoX or track. For example

Hawk HPS - great street and auto X pads.

Hawk HP+ - track recomended pads.

Alex

 

Thanks, I'm glad my comment prompted your response.

 

My final two cents, AutoXCooper.com hit the nail in the head, "You get what you pay for." Last weekend I removed the front brake pads and to my surprise they were chipped and one was cracked. Never seen anything like that. Since I had to replace them, I went to Autozone and got the Duralast Gold for $41(semi-metallic). So far so good, at least the car stops now, and if I hit the brake hard, I can feel the ABS engaging.