Drivetrain Twin Turbo possibilities
Twin Turbo possibilities
So a random, maybe dumb question that I thought about while driving today...
Would it be possible to do a twin turbo set-up utilizing two different sized turbos? A small one like our KO3 so we keep our low end torque and quick spool, and a larger one for up top power. I know a ton would have to be done to even consider this, but technically speaking is it possible to run something like this and does it work like I have explained?
Would it be possible to do a twin turbo set-up utilizing two different sized turbos? A small one like our KO3 so we keep our low end torque and quick spool, and a larger one for up top power. I know a ton would have to be done to even consider this, but technically speaking is it possible to run something like this and does it work like I have explained?
How would you plumb such a beast?
Mazda did this with the 3rd gen Rx-7. Small turbo to get things rolling then transition over to a larger one as RPM's increase. It was a vacuum line nightmare. It worked and one could push about 500hp from it with a lot of tricks. That is till the apex seals went south.
Mazda did this with the 3rd gen Rx-7. Small turbo to get things rolling then transition over to a larger one as RPM's increase. It was a vacuum line nightmare. It worked and one could push about 500hp from it with a lot of tricks. That is till the apex seals went south.
How would you plumb such a beast?
Mazda did this with the 3rd gen Rx-7. Small turbo to get things rolling then transition over to a larger one as RPM's increase. It was a vacuum line nightmare. It worked and one could push about 500hp from it with a lot of tricks. That is till the apex seals went south.
Mazda did this with the 3rd gen Rx-7. Small turbo to get things rolling then transition over to a larger one as RPM's increase. It was a vacuum line nightmare. It worked and one could push about 500hp from it with a lot of tricks. That is till the apex seals went south.
Just askin if its even technically possible!
It's possible, but not probable! The packaging alone would be a nightmare.
If we had access to the MINI ECU and had the ability to add second diverter and wastegate valves, we would be electrically golden far beyond anything Mazda could have dreamed of with the 3rd gen Rx-7.
In reality, you're better off asking yourself where you want the torque to be and then build from there. You can theoretically keep the R56's wide torque band, but shift it higher in the RPM band, all while improving VE with a larger, more efficient turbo.
If we had access to the MINI ECU and had the ability to add second diverter and wastegate valves, we would be electrically golden far beyond anything Mazda could have dreamed of with the 3rd gen Rx-7.
In reality, you're better off asking yourself where you want the torque to be and then build from there. You can theoretically keep the R56's wide torque band, but shift it higher in the RPM band, all while improving VE with a larger, more efficient turbo.
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Orlando, my house is in fortlauderdale and im originally from da bronx
My twin turbo supra was like that. Both turbos where the same size though.
this engine to small to spool to turbos.
you will have lag from hell.
this engine to small to spool to turbos.
you will have lag from hell.
5th Gear
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6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,231
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From: PA/NJ
You mean like this?
Somewhat common in the diesel world... Some 12V Cummins motors have been dyno'd at over 1000hp... in street trucks... pretty insane...
Somewhat common in the diesel world... Some 12V Cummins motors have been dyno'd at over 1000hp... in street trucks... pretty insane...
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it's very very close
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Joined: May 2008
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It was done long ago
Porsche 959. Hot car in the day. Group B rally. Most makers generally found it too complicated and expensive for what you got out of more conventional systems.
As others have said, it's been done a few times. With regards to Ryephiles last couple of sentences, I concur doctor.
As others have said, it's been done a few times. With regards to Ryephiles last couple of sentences, I concur doctor.
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 157
From: Northern Jersey
i'm just going from the S2000 world, but a twin scroll tubular manifold can give you the downlow torque of a smaller turbo, while still having a meaty torque curve to redline. People were running Twinscroll GT35's and had the spool of a gt3076, which is absolutely amazing! I'm not sure on the packaging on the R56 but im sure it could be done!
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 942
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From: Nor-Cal
are you asking if it's possible to utilize a twin turbo in our Mini R56's? or are you asking if it's possible to utilize a variable sized twin turbo in our Mini R56's?
I believe Alta offers a twin turbo set-up for the R56's, it's about $4k (but don't quote me on that price). There may be a few other companies out there that offer it as well, I believe I remember seeing a "challenge" on Top Gear where they tested 1/2 a dozen performance kits for the Mini Cooper S (several being turbo kits, supercharger kits, etc).
As far as different sized turbo's I don't see why that would be an issue since there are already twin turbo kits out there. Yet the twin turbo kit from Alta gets you to 400hp, so not sure why you'd care about various sized turbos when you have 400hp ...who cares if there is some lag you'll catch up and pass most cars anyway w/ this kit.
http://www.coasttocoastusa.com/zenca...products_id=88
I believe Alta offers a twin turbo set-up for the R56's, it's about $4k (but don't quote me on that price). There may be a few other companies out there that offer it as well, I believe I remember seeing a "challenge" on Top Gear where they tested 1/2 a dozen performance kits for the Mini Cooper S (several being turbo kits, supercharger kits, etc).
As far as different sized turbo's I don't see why that would be an issue since there are already twin turbo kits out there. Yet the twin turbo kit from Alta gets you to 400hp, so not sure why you'd care about various sized turbos when you have 400hp ...who cares if there is some lag you'll catch up and pass most cars anyway w/ this kit.
http://www.coasttocoastusa.com/zenca...products_id=88
They don't fly off the road
. Here's an old video Tuls made about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhO2--cFTDY
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Wichita, KS
As said, it is very possible to have 400 hp in a FWD car. I personally would never ever do it because I've seen the trouble that comes from trying to race them.
On the street you're basically stuck racing from a roll. From a dead stop you just cook the tires too much. You need to learn pedal control. You can't just slam on it all the time. So if you do some track racing, you have to pay attention or you'll lose precious seconds from spinning your tires too much.
Not only that, it creates a lot of stress on parts. And heat soaks the engine making you lose power during a race and possibly pre-detonate from too much heat.
Unless you plan on building a drag racing Mini, I wouldn't recommend going past the 300 hp mark. I knew a guy with a big turbo honda civic that could smoke the tires from 60mph on the highway. It's just not practical. Which is why he sold it.
On the street you're basically stuck racing from a roll. From a dead stop you just cook the tires too much. You need to learn pedal control. You can't just slam on it all the time. So if you do some track racing, you have to pay attention or you'll lose precious seconds from spinning your tires too much.
Not only that, it creates a lot of stress on parts. And heat soaks the engine making you lose power during a race and possibly pre-detonate from too much heat.
Unless you plan on building a drag racing Mini, I wouldn't recommend going past the 300 hp mark. I knew a guy with a big turbo honda civic that could smoke the tires from 60mph on the highway. It's just not practical. Which is why he sold it.
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 157
From: Northern Jersey
As said, it is very possible to have 400 hp in a FWD car. I personally would never ever do it because I've seen the trouble that comes from trying to race them.
On the street you're basically stuck racing from a roll. From a dead stop you just cook the tires too much. You need to learn pedal control. You can't just slam on it all the time. So if you do some track racing, you have to pay attention or you'll lose precious seconds from spinning your tires too much.
Not only that, it creates a lot of stress on parts. And heat soaks the engine making you lose power during a race and possibly pre-detonate from too much heat.
Unless you plan on building a drag racing Mini, I wouldn't recommend going past the 300 hp mark. I knew a guy with a big turbo honda civic that could smoke the tires from 60mph on the highway. It's just not practical. Which is why he sold it.
On the street you're basically stuck racing from a roll. From a dead stop you just cook the tires too much. You need to learn pedal control. You can't just slam on it all the time. So if you do some track racing, you have to pay attention or you'll lose precious seconds from spinning your tires too much.
Not only that, it creates a lot of stress on parts. And heat soaks the engine making you lose power during a race and possibly pre-detonate from too much heat.
Unless you plan on building a drag racing Mini, I wouldn't recommend going past the 300 hp mark. I knew a guy with a big turbo honda civic that could smoke the tires from 60mph on the highway. It's just not practical. Which is why he sold it.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,153
Likes: 3
From: Rochester, NY
Not to mention that if you do manage to hook up you will risk drivetrain failures. My buddy has a 500whp MR2 with 285 slicks on it. Fast car but he can't make the drivetrain last, too mush stress. He's been through 6 tranies and two diffs in the last 2 years or so.
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