Looking for Advice on HPDE tires: (The last time this was asked was 12/2007 -yes I looked)

I'm currently running a stock 2002 Mini Cooper S. I use it for both AutoX and HPDE Track Days.

I have a set of run flats and heavy stock 17 inch rims for daily use.

I also have a light set of 16inch rims for autoX and HPDE with Falken Azenis ST-615 215/45/R16.

I am looking for a good street tire to use for AutoX and HPDE. For the HPDE events, I am signed up for two trips to Road Atlanta in the next two moths. I also drive Barber. When we go to events, my sister and I usually share the car (two Driver Car). We are usually placed in the relatively novice class (1 and 2), but we drive quite aggressively and likely a little beyond our group.

At our last event, we overheated the Azenis and were dealing with relatively greasy tires later in the day. (I ran first and they were greasy before I was done ... can't imagine how they were for my sister.) We are also wearing through tires pretty quickly. I'm not sure we are ready to step up to Hoosiers or Kumho's ... so I'd like to hear people's thoughts on good, resiliant street tires. (We worked with a Yokohama Tire Tech at the last event who had a temp probe and told us that we had nailed our tire pressure - I was pretty proud of that)

Another Mini owner at Barber was running Hankook Ventus Rs2 225/50/R16 getting good grip and excellent wearability. I've also heard lots about the RE01's.

Thoughts crew?

 

Dunlop Direzza Star spec is better and cheaper than RE01. One of my track buddy tried Hankook Ventus, it chuncked after one lapping day, while my Direzza held up for 8+ lapping days.

 

I'm suprised to hear about the hankooks chunking ... certainly is a concern for thick tread track tires.

How aggressively/quickly/well do you drive on the Dunlops ... I'd love to hear people's thoughts ....

-J

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXL3NCmJ1H0

FYI: Both Porsches in front has R-tires.

This was the seventh and last track day with Direzza. I switched to R888 after the 8/26 track day. But my fastest time at Pacific Raceway is on Direzza. R888 will be faster, but I have yet to learn the limits of R888.

 

I did a ton of DE's on the Hankook Z212's incl Road Atlanta in the Advanced Intermediate group. The tires lost grip from over cycleing long before the tread wore out. I know I was pushing it since the data logger was showing up to 1.4G in corners.

I've since moved on to using either the NT-01's or R888's depending on my mood when tire swapping. But those Hankooks really held up well to a lot of abuse. I've tried both the Hoosers and Kuhmos, while a lot of fun they are addicting. The only reason I don't use them is I do my tire swaps at home and drive to the track and they are expensive per session. I found I could kill a front pair in a weekend.

 

That's pretty impressive and the Dunlops do appear to perform well on the tire rack testing ....

so, This is the listing from Tire-rack. Since I've seen the other mini owner put Hankook 225/50/16 on his stock vehicle, I imagine I can do the same with these dunlops. too bad I have two fresh falkens in my house ... argggh....

225/50R16
Blackwall

• [*]

Optional Road Hazard Program: additional $13.80 per tire



Qty: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

 

Good to hear the hankooks aren't a bad choice either .... especially from someone who runs RA.
225/45ZR15
Blackwall

• Serv. Desc: 87W

• Price: $99.00 (each)
• Estimated Availability:
  In Stock

Qty: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8


Cough, Cough --- those yokohamas are ridiculously expensive and don't come in the right size anyway ..... (maybe thats how they can afford tire techs at HPDEs)

That video was sweet -- what camera system are you using?

-J

 

I guess I should mention my car was far from stock when I was at Road Atlanta.

 

I run the Hankook RS-2's on the track and autocross with them... On the track, they start and end sessions the exact same way - great. We've seen 1.2 G's sustained on several different tracks (P.S. that corner that Nate's talking about at Road Atlanta is brutal and can and will inflate #'s - hah!). I run 225/45R16's on OZ Ultraleggera's (16x7, +37 ET).

We also run the RS-2's on our e30 BMW for autocross and track - they last us 9 autocross events (double-stinting, 8 runs per event = 144 runs!), street driving and 1-2 DE's. On this car, we run 225/50R15's on Team Dynamics Pro Race 2's. BTW, the 225/50R15 is actually a good 3/4" wider than the 225/45R15 (and that extra grip is GREAT to have)!!! They do finally get a bit hard at the end of a season...

I hear nothing but good things about the Star Spec's, too, though...

 

Thanks for the input, I couldn't find the 225/50/r16s on the tire rack website (oddly); but I definately didn't know that the 225/50R15 is THAT much bigger. That's quite a change.

It makes my little falkens seem puny.

-Jamie

 

That would be Chasecam with a traqmate data recorder

 

i Love my Hankook Rs-2....so far done three full weekend HPDE on them and they stick all weekend from start to finish....Very good wear also. Run very hard on them, no babying

 

So, I found these two tires on tire rack:
1) Will the 245/45/16s fit

2) How much bigger are they?



225/50ZR16
Blackwall

• [*]

Qty: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
245/45ZR16
Blackwall

• [*]

Qty: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

 

I'm also interested in street tires for one or two DEs I do a year. But for factory '09 JCW 17" Challenge rims.

 

Can you make 245/45R16's fit? Sure, with the right wheel offset (or spacers) and LOTS of plastic trimming.

But, IMHO, the OD is much too large... You really want to be in the 23.9" OD size range (e.g. 225/45R16, 225/50R15) to get maximum squirt out of the corners... IMHO, the 225/50R16's are too tall, as are the 245/45R16.

For the 17" JCW Challenger rims, RS-2's in 215/40R17 would be a good choice...

 

P.S. I noticed the Kumho ECSTA XS are now available @ Tire Rack in 215/45R16 for $102 a pop - a massive 9.4" section width and 23.6" O.D. should prove to be a great size... 180 treadwear and AA traction, just like the other Extreme Performance Summer tires out there.

I think I might have found my next set of gumballs...

 

Hey Tex;

Can you expand on why you like a
215/45/r16 over a 225/50/r16.

I figured wider would trump a little bit taller (I wish I were baller, if I had a girl I would call-her)

 

I think I may go with Kumho Exta ASX 215/45/17 for my JCW.

That gives me a decent performance all-season, non run-flat that will be adequate for occasional track duty while working OK with light to moderate snow. Then I can save for a set of dedicated lightweight track wheels with R-Comps.

 

FYI: you should not generally be stepping up in profile with a wider tire. If anything, you step down, so the 225 should go down to 40, not up to 50 as that might make the sidewall too tall and end up rubbing.

215/45/16 => 225/40/16

 

Actually, the section width on the 215/45R16 is WIDER than my current 225/45R16's, per Kumho's specs, and just as wide as most 225/50R16's (but in a shorter overall package).

Section width and overall diameter are both important. While the 225/50R16 has a good section width, the O.D. is 1" bigger than the 215/45R16. The larger O.D. will make the car a little more sluggish coming out of corners. Personally, I'd trade a little width for a better O.D., but with the 215/45R16, 225/50R15, 225/45R15 or 225/45R16 sizes you get both a wide footprint and a good O.D. Best of both worlds.

Not only is the 215/45R16 as wide, but it's shorter O.D. will prove to be quicker around the track... In fact, I'd like to swap out my 225/45R16's with them to get an extra 0.5" of width AND 0.3" shorter O.D.

We run 15" and 16" wheels and tires exclusively for track work - lighter overall package, good widths, good O.D.'s.

 

Thanks Tex,

This is really helpful that you're taking the time to discuss this -- sorry to everyone else if it is to basic.


Maybe I'm missing something .... How can 215 be wider than 225? I thought the first number represented tire width in mm.

I also would have thought width WAAAAAY more important than OD, but I cant argue with track times.

I am with you on the smaller rims .... we're running a light 16 inch set up.

-J

what size dunlops do you run dave?

 

Well, I run Hoosier R6 in a 205/45-16 in SSB. We are allowed to run +20 on width and -10 on section. So the stock Cooper S tire is a 195/55-16, we are allowed to go to a 215/45-16 which no one makes in an R compound. Hoosier is really the only choice for us in SSB at this time. It is 22.8" in diameter with a tread width of 8"

 

Dr Platcity,

Lots of great advise here. The choice of your tires does depend on your track experience in HPDE. If you do not have too much time on the track, I would stick to street tires. You will learn much more about driving fast on a track with street tires. Hankooks, Dunlops, Bridgestones etc are all good tires with 1/10ths differences. TXwerks has really good advise on tire diameter and section width as size and fit are very important. I would stay with 215.

 

2 bits

i ran the 'Kooks last year at 225/45-15.

12 autox events, one track day, 14,000 street miles (a typical year)

at 225, they were wide, and I chose them over the 195/50-15 Bridgestone RE-01r for that reason.

max wet grip .95g, max dry grip 1.03g - a little noisy and tramlined a bit on the street

this year when the 225/45-15 Toyo R1R failed to appear, I went to Dunlop Z1 Star Spec at 195/50-15...

12 autox events, no track day, and again - about 12-14k miles

at 195/50-15 they were a fair bit narrower at the contact patch than the 'Kook, however...

max wet grip 1.03g, max dry grip 1.14g - quiet and beautifully well mannered on the street

so the narrower Dunlop was a significant step up - both in daily use and competition

thus I learned that wider is not ALWAYS better!

cheers,

Charlie

 

It does - every manufacturer has their own interpretation of what that means... SOME people out there even go so far as to call certain combinations from manufacturers "cheater tires" because they'll be 0.5-1" wider in the same profile and aspect ratio...

You can sit two 225/45R16s next to each other from different manufacturers, and I'll guarantee one will likely be wider...

Hoosiers, for instance, are known to run wide as are other manufacturers.