OK, so I've read through the owner's manual and it only vaguely mentions the "anti-theft system" in my MCS. The window sticker from my car mentions an Engine Immolbilizer with Coded Driveaway protection.

I have to fill out this ridiculous form from my insurance company. I have a list of 13 different Passive anti-theft devices and I have to tell them which one I have. Only problem is I don't exactly know. The manual only vaguely mentions the "anti-theft system" and the window sticker only lists an "Engine Immobilizer with Coded Driveaway protection".

I'm guessing it's an ignition cut-off system? Does it cut off the fuel? Lock the hood as well? Aaarrrggghh!

This is so stupid. I did a search on MCO but didn't come up with anything other than seeing that someone got a 15% discount for the system.

Why exactly does MINI even publish a manual? There certainly are a lot of pages in there and I never seem to find anything but the blatantly obvious... To open window press down on switch. To close window lift up on switch. Ooooh, thanks I'd never figure that one out.

OK, sorry for the rant. It's a combination of dealing with stupid insurance co. paperwork and a useless owner's manual.

Any help is appreciated.

 

immobi.. is a system auto cut off the fuel, so that the engine will not work!
the only way to steal this car is to put it on a flat bed since the engine will not work without the key.
So you know what's gonna happen if u lost the key!!
Have you seen the "gone in 60s" how they steal the Merc? they need the key! no key, nothing works. every time u insert the key it recode the engine start up codes.
it help to prevent people try to hard wire or by pass the system. if the code is not match the car will not start. they have to seperate the car into all parts to get it started.

The alarm will sound when the car tilt, the alarm will sound when anything on the car been opened. the alarm will sound when it shakes, the tilt sensor will sense it.

The alarm will sound when there are movement in the car. the motion sensor will sense it.

anyway, you can find it online about the immobi sys. they pretty much all the same. about the alarm, it does have the info on how to activate and deact. and when it sounds!

None of the car manual gives a lot of info. calm down, dont panic.
the easiest way, just ask them which one is the most advanced since you have a new model.
it is true though!

 

JerseyGirl
You have a system on your MINI that will auto cut the fuel from the factory! The only way someone can steal your MINI is to put it on a flat bed as was said in the last post. Your key has a chip with a code in it, that code changes every time your start you car. Your computer will check this code, if it doesn't recognize it, your car will not start, that’s from the factory. If you have the optional alarm system, you have a tilt and motion sensing also, the alarm system will sound when your car is tilted or any door is opened, as was said in the last post also. Your insurance person should know about this and what system you have on your car. Just tell them you have a 2003 MINI Cooper S and if you have a factory alarm system. Hope this has been some help.

Charles

 

Thanks! I knew about the rolling codes and the keys but I needed to know exactly HOW the system immobilizes the car. I don't have the alarm system.

Yeah, the insurance company should know what's in the car but then again they didn't even seem to know what a MINI was...

Insurance: "What kind of car are you buying?"
Me: "It's a MINI Cooper S."
Insurance: "Who makes that?"
Me: "MINI!" (oh boy, here we go)

I'm sure they'll know how to charge me out the wazoo for it though.

 

What insurance do you have? The reason I ask is I had the exact same conversation with my company GEICO.

Insurance: "What kind of car are you buying?"
Me: "It's a MINI Cooper."
Insurance: "Who makes that?"
Me: "MINI - M, I, N, I"
Insurance: "Oh, there it is."

I'll have to ask them about a discount for the factory theft deterrent system. It completely slipped my mind when I called up to get a new quote.

 

Living in Jersey we can't get Geico (or many other companies for that matter). I've got AAA Mid-Atlantic.

 

I had the same talk with my State Farm lady!!!

Them: What kind of car?
Me: a MINI Cooper.
Them: So would that be a BMW?
Me: Nope, pretty sure you should have MINI in your system.
Them: Oh, wow, you're right!

I chalk it up to her being flustered by my unusually suave phone voice

 

Did you know that Geico helped fund the reasearch and development of the Laser radar gun...

Just some food for thought.

 

Those bastards! They owe me 100 bucks and three points!!

 

>>Did you know that Geico helped fund the reasearch and development of the Laser radar gun...
>>
>>Just some food for thought.

GEICO (which originally stood for Govt. Employees Insurance COmpany...and that should tell you something right there) has historically been one of the most active companies in the area of lobbying for aggressive enforcement of all sorts of legislation designed to control what drivers do in their cars. Rather than taking an attitude of letting their customers do what they want as long as they're willing to pay (e.g., go ahead and speed, we'll just raise your rates), GEICO has worked hard to level the playing field in favor of the cops. They're constantly lobbying for states to pass anti-detector legislation, and are funding R&D to create better radar. Maybe that's ok with you; but if not, and if you have a choice in insurance companies, think about who you're giving your business to.

 

>>Living in Jersey we can't get Geico (or many other companies for that matter). I've got AAA Mid-Atlantic.

You should try Electric Insurance - they at least knew what a MINI is without prompting!!

 

>>Those bastards! They owe me 100 bucks and three points!!
you got off easy for only $100.00 my first one in my MINI at 792 miles (and only one so far) was over $350.00. I'm just glad I had slowed down before the curve in he highway where the CHP was hiding with the radar 92 in a 65 zone.

Earl

 

>>>>Those bastards! They owe me 100 bucks and three points!!
>>you got off easy for only $100.00 my first one in my MINI at 792 miles (and only one so far) was over $350.00. I'm just glad I had slowed down before the curve in he highway where the CHP was hiding with the radar 92 in a 65 zone.
>>
>>Earl
_________________
So to those hot-shot MINI drivers, don't get a speeding ticket in California, because it's going to cost you mucho dinero. PLUS, the DMV will report your ticket to your insurance company, and guess what? Up goes your rates for the next year or two.

Back to the main subject: yes, your ignition key has a chip inside that recodes itself everytime, so don't lose it or it'll cost you something in the neighborhood of $150 to get a replacement.

 

Question: if the key chip recodes itself every time I start my car, and the car checks to verify the code before starting, how is it that my second key (I know I have it somewhere) and that wallet key thing also presumably work, even though I haven't used them in over a year? Is there a sequence of codes in each chip's memory that you can skip ahead in if you switch keys? Just curious. Giving somebody a chance to be a real smartypants here.

 

I dont know the specifics of this system, but here are a few guesses.

First of all, to address the second (or 3rd) key issue, thats relatively simple: it may be that the MINI is capable of storing multiple key codes and updating them individually, as a specific key is inserted. This car does have quite a bit of computing power

Secondly, I dont know how active or passive these keys are, but Im guessing they are more passive, due to the emergency key being what it is. By this, I mean to say that the key may be just receiving and saving a new access code, or it may be self generating.

My guess is that the car handles everything. THe key just identifies iteself to the car and then receives a new code for next time.

Another reason to assume that the key is passive is for added security. To reverse engineer an encryption system, having only the access (key) code is useless.

Patrick

 

The chip does not recode itself. The chip in the key is coded once to match the ECU in your car. If the ECU recognizes the key as having the correct code, then it will allow the engine to be started. If it does not, then no spark, and no fuel will delivered to the engine.
There are some systems that recode the key every time you start the car. But our MINIs do not have it. With a rolling code like this, the system is theoretically harder to bypass. The disadvantage is that there is only ONE key you can use to start your car. So if you lose your key, your SOL. The car has to be towed to the dealer . This more advanced system is being used by Mercedes. (and possibly others)

 

>>The chip does not recode itself. The chip in the key is coded once to match the ECU in your car. If the ECU recognizes the key as having the correct code, then it will allow the engine to be started. If it does not, then no spark, and no fuel will delivered to the engine.
>>There are some systems that recode the key every time you start the car. But our MINIs do not have it. With a rolling code like this, the system is theoretically harder to bypass. The disadvantage is that there is only ONE key you can use to start your car. So if you lose your key, your SOL. The car has to be towed to the dealer . This more advanced system is being used by Mercedes. (and possibly others)

You better believe that more than one key comes with an E-Class. It isnt that difficult to code a second key with a second code sequence to the car's computer...

 

The 02/02 build MINI Cooper 5-speed uses a Philips PCF7930 RFID chip.

The chip communicates with the engine management computer (EMC)
and if an incorrect key is inserted, the starter does not turn. I would
suspect that the EMC will not generate fuel injector pulses either,
but I have not verified this. This would prevent pushstarting the car.

The Philips PCF7930 does not use a rolling code, but it uses an encrypted
communication scheme so that it is not possible to simply record the
communications from a working key, and play them back to get a car started,

Each time the key is inserted, the car says "Please take this message and
encrypt it using your secret key and return it to me encrypted." All the
outside reader sees is the unencrypted message from the car to the key,
and the encrypred message from the key to the car.

The car knows the key's secret encryption key, so it can decrypt the message
it got back from the key to see if it was encrypted with one of the allowed
key secret ids. There can be several secret IDs allowed, so you can have several
keys. It is not clear how the car initially learns the secret key, but it involves
inserting a key into the ignition, and asking the EMC to remember the key
by talking to the EMC over the on-board-diagnostics port (OBD) located
above your left knee when in the driver's seat.

Here are some refrences for the curious:
http://www.semiconductors.philips.co...mmobilization/
http://www.semiconductors.philips.co.../transponders/
http://www.semiconductors.philips.co...pcf7935-pp.pdf

 

The key does not exactly 'recode itself', but it is a read/write system. The key of course has the 'password' needed to start the car stored in it, but also had an area of EEPROM memory used to store mileage, service/trouble codes and other identifiers that are written into the key each time the car is started. This is how the service department can get the info from and make a quick diagnosis of your car without needing to get near it. The key goes into a reader that pulls this info out and into their systems.

The MINI key has two separate systems in it; the coded bidirectional 'chip' for the starter immobilizer/alarm and the keyless entry transmitter. The transmitter is what uses the 'rolling code' technology. These two systems are entirely separate from one another. The keyless entry transmits to a receiver inside the car (it's inside the headliner above the rearview mirror), where the 'chip' is accessed by a ring coil around the ignition lock cylinder. The info from the 'chip' is accessed by the engine control computer which determines if the key is valid for the car. The signal from the keyless entry transmitter is used by the body control module to lock/unlock the doors, control the alarm system (part of the BCM too) and operate other programmed features.

The operation of multiple keys with the car is the same as using multiple garage door opener remotes on the same door. The remotes are coded into the opener receiver, and only those remotes will operate the opener. 'Rolling code' type openers are only slightly different in the fact that they only respond to the same digital sequence once. Generally the way this works is there is a root sequence and an incremental or decremental value. The receiver is programmed to recognize the root (key) number for individual transmitters as well as the incremental or decremental number. The transmitter send this code out once and changes it according to the psuedo-random sequence each time the button is pushed. The reciver expects to see a different code in the same family the next time. If a thief were to 'capture' a code from such a sequence and retransmit it, the system will ignore it because it is expecting something from the next sequence. You can be miles from your house and pushing like crazy on the transmitter button and sending new codes out into space, but once you get back home and push the button, the door will open because the 'random' code matches what the receiver is expecting; the root number that has been incremented by the second value. Cool stuff, and near impossible to 'crack'.

Make sense?

 

>>You better believe that more than one key comes with an E-Class. It isnt that difficult to code a second key with a second code sequence to the car's computer...

A new E-class come with only ONE key. A co-worker of mine just bought one.

Check out the links above that Trippy has posted. The third link gives some diagrams of the "key" that is used in the new MBs.

 

The MINI comes with two keys: one key has the chip and the other one does not. At least that was with May 02 build MINIs

 

>>The MINI comes with two keys: one key has the chip and the other one does not.

Nope, they all have chips in them or the car won't even turn over.

I PROMISE!!!

Even the small plastic one.