I went in for a four wheel alignment today at a reputable shop with an expensive alignment machine. They were able to positively correct the rear left and right as well as the front left with excellent numbers. However, they were not able to pull the front right toe and camber into OE spec.

The shop tech feels the front right strut could be the problem. He's not 100%, but thinks it's a "good starting point." If not, replacing the steering knuckle may be another option.

Current measurements:

LEFT FRONT
-0.5º Camber
3.9º Caster
0.19º Toe

RIGHT FRONT
-1.6º Camber
4.1º Caster
0.55º Toe

LEFT REAR
-1.8º Camber
0.23º Toe

RIGHT REAR
-1.8º Camber
0.19º Toe

I just wish I knew for a fact the front right strut is fouled and the cause for throwing off the toe and camber on the right front because my next step is to replace the right (front) strut (OE $142 + shipping + install + front alignment). Any thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

Thanks,
Shane

 

I would suspect a bent strut or spindle assembly...easy way to check struts is to check the clearance in between the tire and the strut tube, then compare it to the other side....if it's closer than the "normal" side, it's bent. Why couldn't they get the toe in??? I don't care what you have bent, the toe can be set all day long, unless the tierod end is seized.

If you can double post, so can I

 

Yeah, there's no reason toe can't be set unless there is a rack problem. The camber, I'm not sure but he should have been able to set toe and buy you some time as toe causes more wear than any other alignment setting.

 

I apologize in advance, I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to the physics behind an alignment.

So to check the struts like you've mentioned, I should stick a tape measure (horizontally) across the top of the tire and measure the gap/space between the strut and where the tire begins?

I did notice the soft, cushy, yellow thing (bump stop?) is exposed on the the front right strut assembly. It is not visible on the left front strut assembly. The entire tire front right wheel/tire appears to be a bit further out on the right side then the left side.

Thanks again for your help.

~Shane

 

You should also check for mushrooming on the RF tower.

 

There is no actual specs for measuring this and most of them that are out have a significant difference between left and right. I use my fingers...If my index finger can slip easily in between the strut and tire on the left strut, then it shouldn't be tight on the right one...

 

Oh man, as soon as I did that it was completely obvious!!!! On the front right (the side out of alignment) I can stick my hand over the tire and a decent amount down the back side of the tire. On the front left I can stick my hand over the tire and just barely fit my middle finger over the crown of the tire.

I then grabbed a pen and stuck it between the strut and tire on the front right and could easily see the tip of the pen sticking out from between the spokes in the wheel. I tried to do the same on the front left and I could not see the pen sticking out from between the spokes because it was too tight to fit.

So I grabbed the woman (lied and said she wouldn't get any dirt on her) and had her try the same thing you told me to try that I just did and she said "oh wow, feels like the one side (front right) is off like 5mm."

 

Good opportunity to get some aftermarket shocks.

 

It is very hard to spot a bad spindle... What I'd do from here is to replace that strut or both depending on mileage and realign to check the numbers. If everything is in spec, you should be good to go.

 

That doesn't make since with the measurements you provided. They show more negative camber on the right side, which should yield LESS room between the top of the tire and the strut.

 

I'm not understanding it either, chuck. But while the front left looks and feels correct, the front right definitely does not.

 

Maybe it's positive camber then. That would indicate that someone's been curb surfing in your car (your RF wheel would show it), and somthing is bent. Most likely part would be the lower control arm. I think it is a weak link, designd to save the structure in the event of an impact. It would take some bigtime mushrooming to go 1.1 deg positive camber, but I would check that first.

If nothing is bent (factory FUBAR) then you can correct the issue with a set of adjustable camber plates. Once the camber is corrected, the toe won't be an issue either.

 

+1 for this. Wouldn't the neg camber be caused by that side being lower than the other side? My vote is for either mushrooming or something being bent. What was the front left camber before the alignment? Have you checked the strut mount and tower for deformation?

 

Before measurements:

LEFT FRONT
-0.5º Camber
3.9º Caster
0.29º Toe

RIGHT FRONT
-1.5º Camber
4.1º Caster
0.40º Toe

There was a bit of mushrooming and a torn strut mount on the right front (both corrected and replaced prior to the alignment).

 

So you feel it's the right lower control arm that's bent and not the right front strut that's bent? Any way to check that (like Chad had me do with the strut)?

 

If you haven't crashed, or been off-roading, I don't thnk anything's bent. The alignment numbers are suspect. Of course, taking a large sledge hammer to that tower to fix the mushrooming is a little suspect too.

 

I'm not the orignal owner so if the car did pot hole duty in St. Louis (where it was originally from), that to me is suspect that it could have something bent. Couple that with the granite tough runflats, and I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Take a look at this picture below (note: not my car), see how the front wheel tucks under the front right fender? Yeah, mine doesn't do that. Something is array. Everything is perfect on the front left though.

 

I didn't read and try to comprehend your entire post after you checked the struts but.....A bent control arm will not cause a difference in the distance between left and right tires and the strut tube....it just can't physically. In order for the control arm to contribute to negative camber the ball joint would have to be bent or the control arm would have to stretch. If the control arm bent, causing it to pull in on the outer ball joint, the camber would go to the positive side.

No matter what, there should not be a significant difference in the distance of the strut tube.

Ok how about some stupid questions, you are calling the Pass. side the right side correct? Like stated above, there could be an alignment head installation issue that skews the numbers. I am betting you have something going on though due to the mushroomed strut top and incorrect camber. Have seen it too many times to doubt it.

 

I have taken a straight edge to check the control arms...they are pretty flat. You don't have to have a straight edge, it's not that critical, a ruler should suffice. Put it on the bottom edge, IIRC, from the outer ball joint towards the rear bushing and it should be relatively flat.

 

see if anyone in your area has an extra one, and pop it in and see if it's all better.

Matt

 

Chad, first, I really appreciate your help. Correct, I am calling the passenger side the right side. This is the trouble area.

As mentioned before, there's more gap between the right front (passenger) strut tube and the tire then there is on the left front (driver) strut tube and tire. Also, standing directly above the right front (passenger) wheel (like above the trim piece) it *looks* as if the wheel & tire are out further then the left front (driver) side.

 

Just got home and checked it with a ruler, both appear flat. I'm hoping it's the strut because I'm about to dig through the NAM classifieds and find me one.

 

No problem, glad to help in any way I can

I guess if were bent on the piston of the strut and not the tube itself, this could happen... Good luck, sometimes finding these problems can be a little frustrating and using your common sense can be your best tool.