Has anyone tried these?
http://www.mini-madness.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=323

Looks like they should tighten up the steering much like the Alta PSRS, but without adding caster adjustment, at a somewhat lower price.

Also, does anyone know the install time for such bushings? I've heard as much as 7 hours...

 

These are the same as Powerflex bushings. I've used these for almost 100,000 miles and I like them, a lot. These will add noticably to harshness when traveling over RR tracks for example. They will become a little harder in winter. Steering response is awsome...basically point and step in the throttle - within reason - and track accuracy improves a whole bunch. Your alignment setting will need to be altered since these do not flex as much as the stokcers. Basically, be very specific about toe settings; the wheels will toe in a little under load with the stock bushings and this will aid stability on a highway with a stock alinment. Whatever alignment spec you select for toe, understand it will not change much under load. Written another way, those who like toe out do not need as much with this bushing.

You will need to drop the sub-fram to replace these. I've this three times and I'm down to 3.5 hours in my driveway - a very concentrated and focused 3.5 hours.

While you are replacing these bushings, you should also replace the swaybar bushings, inner ball joints and perhaps the steering rack bushing. These are all extremely easy to get at with the subframe removed. I just replaced all of these items and installed new Powerflec bushings. The old pair didn't look bad and the new pair don't feel any different - all good. Use plenty of the copper antisieze supplies with the kit and get more...every part of these should be libricated. Lube the swaybar busings just a little.

PM me if you have more questions.


Michael

 

Corrected - I was looking at a different product, the PSA...

 

The PSRS doesn't work with 15" and 16" wheels?

 

Oops - Sorry - just realized that was for a completely different product, the PSA. Wrong acronym...

 

I cannot imagine that any LCA bushing will affect wheel size

 

If you relocate the bushing holder, as the PSA does, it apparently creates a problem with 15-16" wheels.

 

I'm going to have the Madness front bushings installed next week.

I've looked at the PSRS, and concluded that I have little interest in changing the geometry of the front end, but I really want to get rid of the drastic toe change that happens when you go from power on to braking.

It should result in much more predictable handling. I'll report after the install.

 

OldRick - please report on install pricing, too! Thanks.

 

Will do - scheduled tuesday.
Rick

 

How'd it go OldRick?

 

Install took about four and a half hours - a couple of the bolts are in places where it's tough to put enough torque on them, and they were on TIGHT. The OEM bushings were not in bad shape, and were removed with a hydraulic press. No realignment was needed.

I was surprised to find little obvious change as I drove away, until I turned right and gave it a bit of gas. The car turned faster than I was expecting, and the tail end a little lighter. I presume that this is because the front tires are now gripping better, due to greatly reduced change in Toe during speed and directional transitions.

So I headed for some twisties, and found that the car is considerably more predictable when stressed, and much smoother thru transitions during braking, easing off, and accelerating after the apex.

The condition and slant of the road has a lot less effect on the direction the car wants to go, and at the same time, the feel of the road condition is slightly less dulled. Other than that, I did not notice any obvious change in noise, vibration, or harshness at the wheel.

The morning after, driving on my familiar access road with all its known imperfections, I noticed a bit more plastic rattle and awareness of the small stuff. Not enough to annoy me, but a slight increase in low-level impact noise.

It's noticeable that the tighter steering rewards smoothness at the wheel - once much of the slop of rubber bushings is gone, even a little twitch or unsmooth motion can shift your line very quickly during a corner.

Wheel hop or judder on launch is reduced, and the car is quite a bit more pointable and easier to control on the throttle when cornering. The front bushings seem to reduce understeer a bit. Presumably this is due to better traction up front, and I hope that the rear bushings will balance this out.

It's worth noting that your car may differ from mine, as I have upper and lower strut braces and the Cabrio diagonal braces on the front end of my car - it is a bit stiffer front chassis than stock. As a result, I'd expect that it would resist extra strain and impacts through the stiffer bushings better than most, and that any such NVH would be transmitted less than on a more flexible stock frame.

I've also got lightweight 15" & 16" wheels/tires and Koni FSDs, so the impacts that get to the control arm bushings are certainly lessened in my car compared to stock - a stock car would notice more noise and road shocks from the bushings.

I had been thinking that this was a mod with no downside, but there is that additional road-surface connection. For me and my car, not an issue, but a stock car on heavy stock wheels and runflats might find the added harshness unacceptable.

OTOH, replacing bushings with Heim joints, in my experience, is not the right thing for a street car, as they wear, require lubrication, transmit and eventually create NVH, and add considerably to the stress and strain on the attached parts. I won't do it again unless I lose my senses entirely and go racing...

However, I like what these urethane bushings do well enough that I'll be going back for the Madness rear control arm bushings in a week or two. They should be considerably easier to install.

 

I agree with the review, love mine. I saved $twenty and got the Powerflex though.

 

OR - Thanks for posting the review!

 

I've now got the Mini-Madness urethane trailing-arm bushings on, in addition to the front control-arm bushes.

As with the front control-arm bushings, the car becomes more predictable any time you hit the brakes, as well as during hard cornering. It's very apparent on my favorite corner for testing bad judgment, where I can safely lift in mid-corner and see what happens - the consequences, where the back of the car tries to lift and sort of bound to the outside, are greatly reduced.

What these bushings are all about is reducing the change in Toe that the stock bushings allow. Any time you go from power-on to lift off, or hit the brakes, the wheels shift fore-and-aft relative to the car.

With worn stock bushings this can be around 1/2" of motion, which changes the direction the tires are pointing - from Toe-in to Toe-out or vice versa. At that time, depending on whether you are turning or not and the slope and stickiness of the road, one tire will get a bit more grip than the other, and you get that disconcerting momentary wiggle, as the car makes up its mind and settles down to its new balance.

These F&R bushings greatly reduce the dynamic change in Toe, and so the car becomes much more predictable and easier to manage when cornering hard.

I wouldn't install the trailing arms unless you already have done the front control arms with urethane. Unlike the front control arm bushings, these didn't add any noticable NVH to my car. They shouldn't, as they are not load-bearing.

These are not the whole story for tightening up the tail end, as there are still stock rubber bushings at each end of the rear control arms, which could be replaced with urethane, or the whole control arm is replaceable with Heim joints for racing. The trailing arm bushings probably do about 50% of the job, but this is as far as I plan to go for use on the road.

Installation of these was relatively easy - about an hour for both sides. It takes an 18mm socket.

Bottom line: a worthwhile upgrade if you want more predictability and precision in your control of the car.

 

How did you go about installing the rear trailing arm bushings? I had so much trouble trying to get the torque on the bolt to remove it due to the angle that I gave up. I still have the bushings ready to go in the garage.

 

One major drawback to these bushings is that they limit the travel of the front control arms. The bushings actually start to bind up.

 

Can't tell you nabeshin - I just watched.
The big bolt was first removed with the wheel off, with a socket wrench, and final-tightened with the car on the rack, but back down on the wheels. They didn't take off any body plastic parts.
I don't know where you got your bushings, but M-M was shooting pictures for some installation instructions...

 

I'm not sure how they bind up when all they do is rotate a bit with wheel travel up and down ScottinBend. There's lot's of lube in there with the MM and/or Powerflex bushings. The stockers are where there's winding up and unwinding of the bushings.

Thanks for your reporting OldRick!

I may try the rear trailing arm bushings next year.

Jeremy

 

This is from someone who has installed them. The amount of travel of the front control arm is worse with the new bushings.

 

Is it possible that instead of loss of travel that what might be felt is the loss of spongy feeling from the oem rubber bushings? The firmer ride may have the illusion of less travel because of a firmer condition in the travel.

 

I've installed them and there's no voids with the urethane. It's just a pivot point-that's how I understand it. The first 2 pics show a stock bushing half pressed out. The third pic shows the powerflex bushes pressed in and ready to go. The last pic shows the 2 front LCA. They just swing on the bushing carrier along the axis there with the inner ball joint. The upshot is no binding with the powerflex.

Jeremy

 

I haven't noticed any ill effects from the front bushings. I even have the powerflex 'motorsport retaining brackets' installed with mine. Those if anything will limit the travel some.

But, all I get is positive effects in the car's dynamics. I will never go back to the stock bushings.

 

jhiggs26

Have you tried the steering rack bushings at all?

 

Yes you can actually see the steering rack bushing in 2 pics above(behind the stock LCA bushing. In the pic below the rack bushing is on the right side of the steering rack there. The other side is hard mounted where the pinion/steering shaft connect.

Jeremy

There's my re-bushed front subframe this past spring.