Drivetrain Thoughts on my Borla Sport (Race)
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4th Gear
Joined: May 2003
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Well I installed my Borla Sport (Race) exhaust and took it for a ride yesterday. Here are my first impressions....
First off, I originally was planning on getting the Magnaflow but after looking at the design of the Borla, I felt the design was better and I liked the tips on the Borla better but the cost of the Borla was signifigantly higher than the cost of the Magnaflow and since everyone was saying the Magnaflow has the best HP increase I was sold on the Maganflow. When I found the group buy however for the Borla and it was the same price as the lowest I had found for the Magnaflow I changed my mind and got the Borla Sport instead. I don't think the HP numbers are really that important when comparing one exhaust to another anyway. All of them produce more HP and too may variables exist depending on what mods are on the car when tested and what mods you plan to do and where you want the most HP increase and someone even mentioned that it may take 500miles before your computer adjusts to the new exhaust and if that's the case Dyno number are not going to be accurate unless the car is driven for 500 miles before doing the dyno test. The exhaust that is most compatible with the stock computer setup is going to win on a dyno run after installation.
Noise, you guy's had me worried that this was going to be way to loud. Someone even mentioned that it was too loud for a street car. Another mentioned that this is what they thought the 'S' should sound like from the Manufacturer. Very confusing to say the least. Obviously noise is very subjective. I have determined that I don't mind loud if it sounds good to me. If I hear a boat with dual big block V-8's with straight pipes into the water that sounds great to me. If the kid across the street and two doors down start up his Camaro with performance exhaust I can hear it in my house, again sounds good to me so I don't mind. But when the kid down the street drives by on his 50cc modified scooter it's loud but sounds like a chainsaw at full throttle going by my house, I hate it.
Start up, When I started up the car, I have to say I was expecting it to be alot louder. Reving in neutral it's really not loud at all. It has a very nice deep tone at idle and as you rev the engine it smooths out very nicely let off the throttle and you get a nice little burble as the RPM's drop. It's exactly the sound I wanted but it could easily be alot louder and I wouldn't mind. The sound is no where close to the kid down the street with the Camaro or almost any other V8 engine with a performance exhaust. You are not going to upset your neighbors with this exhaust because they probably are not gona hear it in their house. That was my biggest concern when I ordered the exhaust, I didn't want something where my neighbors wound hear the race car next door start up each morning.
Driving, this is where people are obviously saying it's too loud. Inside the car you will get that resonant sound (I'm assuming this is the "Drone" everyone is talking about) that kinda remides me of the sound a subwoofer makes if you turn it up to loud. It's really only loud during acceleration and can almost be eliminated by opening the windows or the sunroof. You can control the noise with the throttle and my biggest concern was at highway speed would it be anoying. When Ii got to 70mph the drone was not bad at all. You hear a louder hum than the stock exhaust has but not much more and it doesn't seem to bother me. It's not nearly as bad as the 1990 Mazda Miata is with the stock exhaust on the highway. That used to give me a headache because the exhaust would resonate in the truck creating a loud hum (drone) in the car that would bother me.
So, to sum it up I'm happy with my Borla Sport, it's not too loud outside the car so I won't upset my neighbors but I wouldn't mind finding a way to lessen the drone during mid range RPM acceleration in the car. My wife hasn't heard the car run nor has she been in the car yet. Baby sitter tonight, date night, I'll let you know.
Also, could someone explain why most of these exhaust systems have a resonator in them and what the difference between a resonator and a muffler is? Also, where does the Drone come from? Is it from noise coming out the exhaust or noise from the exhuast muffler/resonator under the car?
One last note, the quality of the Borla exhaust is excellent and the multi-piece installation was very easy. You just assemble the rear loop consisting of the 'Y' pipe 2 muffler and the tips without tightening the clamps then hang the assembly under the car, install the resonator pipe and extension pipe and tighten everything up. Goes real quick and as long as you slide the pipes together enough you won't get any leaks. The tips are adjustable up and down and right to left by loosening the two rear clamps. You can get perfect allingment and direction of the tips.
First off, I originally was planning on getting the Magnaflow but after looking at the design of the Borla, I felt the design was better and I liked the tips on the Borla better but the cost of the Borla was signifigantly higher than the cost of the Magnaflow and since everyone was saying the Magnaflow has the best HP increase I was sold on the Maganflow. When I found the group buy however for the Borla and it was the same price as the lowest I had found for the Magnaflow I changed my mind and got the Borla Sport instead. I don't think the HP numbers are really that important when comparing one exhaust to another anyway. All of them produce more HP and too may variables exist depending on what mods are on the car when tested and what mods you plan to do and where you want the most HP increase and someone even mentioned that it may take 500miles before your computer adjusts to the new exhaust and if that's the case Dyno number are not going to be accurate unless the car is driven for 500 miles before doing the dyno test. The exhaust that is most compatible with the stock computer setup is going to win on a dyno run after installation.
Noise, you guy's had me worried that this was going to be way to loud. Someone even mentioned that it was too loud for a street car. Another mentioned that this is what they thought the 'S' should sound like from the Manufacturer. Very confusing to say the least. Obviously noise is very subjective. I have determined that I don't mind loud if it sounds good to me. If I hear a boat with dual big block V-8's with straight pipes into the water that sounds great to me. If the kid across the street and two doors down start up his Camaro with performance exhaust I can hear it in my house, again sounds good to me so I don't mind. But when the kid down the street drives by on his 50cc modified scooter it's loud but sounds like a chainsaw at full throttle going by my house, I hate it.
Start up, When I started up the car, I have to say I was expecting it to be alot louder. Reving in neutral it's really not loud at all. It has a very nice deep tone at idle and as you rev the engine it smooths out very nicely let off the throttle and you get a nice little burble as the RPM's drop. It's exactly the sound I wanted but it could easily be alot louder and I wouldn't mind. The sound is no where close to the kid down the street with the Camaro or almost any other V8 engine with a performance exhaust. You are not going to upset your neighbors with this exhaust because they probably are not gona hear it in their house. That was my biggest concern when I ordered the exhaust, I didn't want something where my neighbors wound hear the race car next door start up each morning.
Driving, this is where people are obviously saying it's too loud. Inside the car you will get that resonant sound (I'm assuming this is the "Drone" everyone is talking about) that kinda remides me of the sound a subwoofer makes if you turn it up to loud. It's really only loud during acceleration and can almost be eliminated by opening the windows or the sunroof. You can control the noise with the throttle and my biggest concern was at highway speed would it be anoying. When Ii got to 70mph the drone was not bad at all. You hear a louder hum than the stock exhaust has but not much more and it doesn't seem to bother me. It's not nearly as bad as the 1990 Mazda Miata is with the stock exhaust on the highway. That used to give me a headache because the exhaust would resonate in the truck creating a loud hum (drone) in the car that would bother me.
So, to sum it up I'm happy with my Borla Sport, it's not too loud outside the car so I won't upset my neighbors but I wouldn't mind finding a way to lessen the drone during mid range RPM acceleration in the car. My wife hasn't heard the car run nor has she been in the car yet. Baby sitter tonight, date night, I'll let you know.
Also, could someone explain why most of these exhaust systems have a resonator in them and what the difference between a resonator and a muffler is? Also, where does the Drone come from? Is it from noise coming out the exhaust or noise from the exhuast muffler/resonator under the car?
One last note, the quality of the Borla exhaust is excellent and the multi-piece installation was very easy. You just assemble the rear loop consisting of the 'Y' pipe 2 muffler and the tips without tightening the clamps then hang the assembly under the car, install the resonator pipe and extension pipe and tighten everything up. Goes real quick and as long as you slide the pipes together enough you won't get any leaks. The tips are adjustable up and down and right to left by loosening the two rear clamps. You can get perfect allingment and direction of the tips.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,892
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From: Long Island, New York
Being a soldier of the... "exhaust wars"...lol....:smile:, I truly appreciate your write-up.
It sounds like you have received what you wanted and it does what you need it tooo..
You win :!!!!
Congratz
Peace,
D
BTW.. I have the Borla (Street)
_________________
I own a 2002 MCS w/ alot of stuff on it.
It sounds like you have received what you wanted and it does what you need it tooo..
You win :!!!!
Congratz
Peace,
D
BTW.. I have the Borla (Street)
_________________
I own a 2002 MCS w/ alot of stuff on it.
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 540
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From: Calabasas, Los Angeles
Great write up! I haven't read Borla Race exhaust reviews so this was very interesting. How has the driveability of the car been affected, how does the engine feel at low/mid/high-rpm's and is a change in power apparent?
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4th Gear
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>>Thanks for the detailed summary! Any chance of posting a sound clip?
I don't have an easy way of getting a sound clip without a hassel. I have to say that what sold me on the exhaust was the sound clips of the Borla Sport on the MiniMadness Supertuner Challenge car. You can check out the sound clips here;
http://www.mini-madness.com/caranddriverresults.html
I don't have an easy way of getting a sound clip without a hassel. I have to say that what sold me on the exhaust was the sound clips of the Borla Sport on the MiniMadness Supertuner Challenge car. You can check out the sound clips here;
http://www.mini-madness.com/caranddriverresults.html
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4th Gear
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>>Great write up! I haven't read Borla Race exhaust reviews so this was very interesting. How has the driveability of the car been affected, how does the engine feel at low/mid/high-rpm's and is a change in power apparent?
It's difficult to tell, I think it's faster and feels better at higher RPM's but I only have 1k miles on my car so I haven't gotten a good "Beat on it" comparison because I didn't get on it that many times before. Your senses get a little messed up between what you hear and what you feel. Feel's faster/more powerful because it sound such. It was interesting that when I first started up the car the idle was rough and I noticed it right away. It went away after I drove it but I wondered if the computer was adjusting to the free flow exhaust. The car obviously noticed a difference.
It's difficult to tell, I think it's faster and feels better at higher RPM's but I only have 1k miles on my car so I haven't gotten a good "Beat on it" comparison because I didn't get on it that many times before. Your senses get a little messed up between what you hear and what you feel. Feel's faster/more powerful because it sound such. It was interesting that when I first started up the car the idle was rough and I noticed it right away. It went away after I drove it but I wondered if the computer was adjusting to the free flow exhaust. The car obviously noticed a difference.
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3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 160
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Looks like maybe I should have gone with "sport". I have the regular which I really like, looks great and sounds good, but I'm looking for a little more volume.
I'm working with Jeremy from http://www.flowfaster.com on tyring to get me the "sport" system. They carry both Borla systems for $600. Cheapest I found so far.
This means I might have a "regular" borla for sale soon.
I'm working with Jeremy from http://www.flowfaster.com on tyring to get me the "sport" system. They carry both Borla systems for $600. Cheapest I found so far.
This means I might have a "regular" borla for sale soon.
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 56
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From: Houston
I just installed the same system three days ago. SuperMini's description of the sound is right on the mark. It's definitely louder than stock, but not obnoxious. The one thing I'd add is that, to me, the sound seems deeper than the Magnaflow (but not necessarily louder). Before I installed it I was worried about the "pops, hisses, and burbles" that some people described. I suppose some of those sounds might come on as the system gets broken in, but right now there's only some burbling after revving the engine--no "popping" or other unusual noises.
A couple notes about the installation:
1. You can hang the mufflers first and then slip the other pieces together (although it's a tight fit). If you're installing it by yourself, that will make it a lot easier--start at the back and work your way forward to the exhaust manifold.
2. The clamps are the band style, the kind that makes it impossible to crush the tubes--very nice quality, in fact. Unlike the Magnaflow, you need to check the clearances between the clamps and the battery box shield (just after the Y junction in the back). It's a simple fix to readjust it later but but why not get it right the first time.
One last bit of cheerleading, you've got to love the way those tips fill out the gap in the rear facia!
e
A couple notes about the installation:
1. You can hang the mufflers first and then slip the other pieces together (although it's a tight fit). If you're installing it by yourself, that will make it a lot easier--start at the back and work your way forward to the exhaust manifold.
2. The clamps are the band style, the kind that makes it impossible to crush the tubes--very nice quality, in fact. Unlike the Magnaflow, you need to check the clearances between the clamps and the battery box shield (just after the Y junction in the back). It's a simple fix to readjust it later but but why not get it right the first time.
One last bit of cheerleading, you've got to love the way those tips fill out the gap in the rear facia!
e
OVERDRIVE - Racing Champion
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,262
Likes: 72
From: Mililani, Hawaii
Thanks very much for the write ups on the Borla Sport- sounds like a winner and certainly a good option for those with big plans for high power MCS upgrades. If any problems crop up please post an update.
"Sounds deeper than the Magnaflow"- wow that is good.
"Sounds deeper than the Magnaflow"- wow that is good.
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4th Gear
Joined: May 2003
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Just an update, I took my wife to lunch and she totaly approved. She really didn't even notice the exhaust until I mentioned it and she didn't mind the slightly louder than stock sound. Two thumbs up!
Ethos - I do love those tips. I also like how they extend out the back of the car. Looks great!
Ethos - I do love those tips. I also like how they extend out the back of the car. Looks great!
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4th Gear
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>>Was the install hard? I might be doing mine tomorrow...if only I can find some jack stands...
The install is very easy. you definetly need jack stands to get under it. The hardest part was getting the studs poped out of the rubber hangers - you'll see. To make it eaiser I unbolted the straps (4 bolts) that go around the mufflers on the stock exhaust to get the exhaust out then wrestled getting the mounts off the rubber hangers. I put grease on the ends of the studs and used large adjustable pliers to force the stud out of the rubber. Just get the pliers on the stud sticking out and the opposite side of the rubber so the tip pops into the rubber. Once you get the tip into the rubber you can twist it off. They come off hard and go on very easy. Should take about an hour and a half with Jack stands. Good luck!
The install is very easy. you definetly need jack stands to get under it. The hardest part was getting the studs poped out of the rubber hangers - you'll see. To make it eaiser I unbolted the straps (4 bolts) that go around the mufflers on the stock exhaust to get the exhaust out then wrestled getting the mounts off the rubber hangers. I put grease on the ends of the studs and used large adjustable pliers to force the stud out of the rubber. Just get the pliers on the stud sticking out and the opposite side of the rubber so the tip pops into the rubber. Once you get the tip into the rubber you can twist it off. They come off hard and go on very easy. Should take about an hour and a half with Jack stands. Good luck!
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 56
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From: Houston
It took me a bit longer than 1.5 hrs for the install, closer to 2.5, since this was the first time I've had my MINI on four jack stands. In the end I used two jacks, one at each of the two front jacking points, to lift the car. Bringing the car up evenly makes it easier to place the stands on the "frame rail" section in the front. The process is difficult to explain but you'll see what I mean as soon as you get it in the air.
e
e
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 148
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From: Northern Virginia
My impressions with the Race system are almost identical to yours, Super MINI. However I get no drone at all. My tips also stick out some. It may be because I started from the cat and worked my way back.
I'm very happy with my system.
Tom
I'm very happy with my system.
Tom
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4th Gear
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Drove the car last night, I love this exhaust. Tom, my tips stick out alot, I don't know the exact definition of "Drone" but the exhaust is noisy in the car a certain RPM/Throttle position. Higher RPM is not noisy at all in the Car. The more I drive it the more I like it. It's not too noisy in the car for normal conversation even at it's loudest.
My 2year old son's impressions of the Exhaust: "There's a Monster in Daddy's Car, I can hear it" I about fell to the floor laughing..
My 2year old son's impressions of the Exhaust: "There's a Monster in Daddy's Car, I can hear it" I about fell to the floor laughing..
OVERDRIVE - Racing Champion
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,262
Likes: 72
From: Mililani, Hawaii
Depending on your results, you might be able to tune out the drone by adjusting the position of the tailpipes a bit.
First let the exhaust break in, maybe drive 500 to 800 miles. It might be just fine after that. If not then do some adjustment and let the tail pipe extend out the back just a bit more.
I have Quicksilver and my son says-"I can tell when you get home by the roar of the car". By adjusting throttle I can control the loudness of the exhaust.
Borla sport sounds like a winner. Waiting for those video or sound clips. (by the way the clips often don't do justice to the real system) It's always best to hear it in person.
Does anyone have any dyno numbers for the Borla sport yet?
First let the exhaust break in, maybe drive 500 to 800 miles. It might be just fine after that. If not then do some adjustment and let the tail pipe extend out the back just a bit more.
I have Quicksilver and my son says-"I can tell when you get home by the roar of the car". By adjusting throttle I can control the loudness of the exhaust.
Borla sport sounds like a winner. Waiting for those video or sound clips. (by the way the clips often don't do justice to the real system) It's always best to hear it in person.
Does anyone have any dyno numbers for the Borla sport yet?
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 21
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Thanks for the write up. I really like my Borla exhaust for my 3000GT, but everyone here didn't seem to like the Borla. When I saw that Borla came out with the Sport, I was almost sold. I think your article put me over the top, and it will be the second mod I buy, after an air filter.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,193
Likes: 1
From: CT, Litchfield County
I spent all day installing my Borla Race, and my B&M short shift...
To start off, I had the hardest time putting my car on jack stands. When I finally got that done, it took me about an hour of searching to realize that I didn't have a socket wrench anywhere in sight...plenty of sockets, but no wrench. After a trip to the store, and a new set of tools, I spent a good hour trying to undo the RUSTED bolts that where right after the catalytic converter. Everything went smooth from there on though.
A good tip for installing the exhaust is to put some WD-40 on the hangers, and in the bushing before hanging. It just slides right in...
I have to agree with people who say that this is what the MCS SHOULD sound like. Nice and sporty. I don't think it is as loud as the Magnaflow, but right around that area as far as noise goes.
To start off, I had the hardest time putting my car on jack stands. When I finally got that done, it took me about an hour of searching to realize that I didn't have a socket wrench anywhere in sight...plenty of sockets, but no wrench. After a trip to the store, and a new set of tools, I spent a good hour trying to undo the RUSTED bolts that where right after the catalytic converter. Everything went smooth from there on though.
A good tip for installing the exhaust is to put some WD-40 on the hangers, and in the bushing before hanging. It just slides right in...
I have to agree with people who say that this is what the MCS SHOULD sound like. Nice and sporty. I don't think it is as loud as the Magnaflow, but right around that area as far as noise goes.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
I told you guys so.... 
I was the one who said that "That is the way the stock MCS SHOULD sound like".
My friend in a stock MCS was following me out to the WDC yesterday morning and reported back to me that he could hear every up-shift and heal/toe I made. He could tell when ever I was preparing to pass by the sound of my revs while down shifting
But guess what...while mixed in with the gaggles of big block funny cars (ok not funny, but pro-stockers with 20in wide slicks!) on Woodward, my Borla Race completely disappeared. The only time I could hear my exhaust was when I was going for it while in a three way rolling run to around 90. I got two car length ahead and held the lead against tjwo 70s something Cutlass and Firebird 400 convertible...hee, hee, hee. Not even close to being loud relatively speaking
Sid
[img]sdfsdf
[/IMG]
I was the one who said that "That is the way the stock MCS SHOULD sound like".My friend in a stock MCS was following me out to the WDC yesterday morning and reported back to me that he could hear every up-shift and heal/toe I made. He could tell when ever I was preparing to pass by the sound of my revs while down shifting
But guess what...while mixed in with the gaggles of big block funny cars (ok not funny, but pro-stockers with 20in wide slicks!) on Woodward, my Borla Race completely disappeared. The only time I could hear my exhaust was when I was going for it while in a three way rolling run to around 90. I got two car length ahead and held the lead against tjwo 70s something Cutlass and Firebird 400 convertible...hee, hee, hee. Not even close to being loud relatively speaking
Sid
[img]sdfsdf
[/IMG]
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4th Gear
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Cooperspeed, Congradulations for getting your exhaust/short shifter on. It's amazing what those two mod's alone due for the feel/sportyness of the car. Silver was right, and it was his opinion of it in a previous post that made me think this exhaust can't be too loud as other had indicated. It's the way the car should sound! Not too loud, not too quiet, just right.