The Euro Mini's are coming out with the auto start, gas saving function.. or the function when your car comes to a stop, the engine goes into "sleep mode" and then when you accelerate, it kicks back in. I rented a Honda Civic with that feature last week in LA. It was horrible. There's a slight delay as the car kicks in. Not huge but definitely there and it really bugged me. After driving 75% freeway miles on the "hybrid" Civic, I filled up 5 gallons and I got less than 25 miles to the gallon... and I was driving very conservatively. Wow!! 25 mpg's in a hybrid????? Our Mini's should have Hybrid stickers all over them so we can drive in the communter lanes because I get a lot better mileage in mine that the Civic. just my opinion...

 

I have it in my toyota Prius, and I don't notice it at all. Maybe it's the method of implementation. I get 45-50 mpg regularly on my prius with 85K miles.

 

I've heard the Prius gets that mileage so maybe it's just the Civic or maybe just the rental Civic I got. All I can describe it is like a golf cart that catches as it starts to go. You can feel it catch. Maybe the Prius is just manufactured better and you don't feel it.

 

Well, two things to remember:

1) During highway driving, you lose many of the economy benefits of the hybrid design (very little regenerative braking, and few opportunities for the gasoline engine to shut down). That's why unlike "regular" cars, the EPA estimates for hybrids are always higher for city driving than highway driving.

2) EPA estimates are always a little on the high side, but for hybrids, they seem to be *very* optimistic.

Still, 25 MPG seems to be a little low for the Civic. Real-world long-term tests have been getting significantly higher MPG than that, although still not equal to the EPA estimates.

 

Hi Scott, I was thinking that as well, as more of my mileage was on the freeway.. but then, shouldnt it get great mileage on the freeway anyway? Why do they get the commuter lane when their mileage is worse than my Mini? They can have the commuter lane on city streets. I just did the math so the numbers don't lie to me. I guess I would need to drive it more than the time I had it but still, that's way off what they say it gets.. to me, it's all hype. I'll keep my non-hybrid Mini that gets better mileage, thank you

 

All the "Hybrid" stuff is purely feel good political correctness. Like ethanol and recycling, it's the thought that matters, not the results.

 

Actually, I think it's a misunderstanding to think that the HOV lane is about gas mileage. My understanding is that it's really about emissions.

Even on the highway, where the regenerative benefits of hybrids are severely limited... the emissions are very low.

And for that reason, they get a "driver only" pass for HOV lanes.

 

Something to remember is that the MINI system, if it works the way they've said, is NOT activated merly by coming to a stop, and/or stepping on the gas pedal. The engine shuts off if the car is in neutral and the clutch pedal is not depressed. So when you come to a stoplight, if you leave it in gear and have the clutch pedal in, the engine won't shut off. If you put it in neutral, but leave the pedal in (for whatever reason), it won't shut off. If you've got it in neutral and your foot off the clutch pedal, and the engine is in shut-down mode, it will start back up when you push in the clutch pedal. So if it's a light/intersection that you frequently go through and you are familiar with the pattern, you could easily get the engine started back up in time to take off with the rest of the traffic.

Assuming it works without any weird glitches (and that's not always a given with MINIs), I think it's a great idea. At longer lights, I almost always put the car in neutral and take my foot off the clutch. Then when it looks like the light is getting close to changing for me, I push in the clutch and put it back in gear so I'm ready to go. I see no reason why the engine needs to keep running during the time when I'm just sitting (other than say keeping the a/c going on those 100+ degree days).

 

I'm not sure how the MINI's system works but my parents have it in both their cars (Toyota Prius and Honda Insight). The Insight is a 5 spd and works in a similar manner as the MINI's system. Upon stepping on the throttle or putting it into gear, the engine is turned on within 1/4 turn of the crank. I wonder if BMW put a big capacitor to store enough charge for that quick burst. Doing that on a 12V system would put way too high a load on the battery.

Or any other British car for that matter. I think we're ok as long as it doesn't say "Lucas." If it does, we're doomed

 

Actually, the Prius benefits rather well from highway driving -- it's a very common "untruth" that you only get good mileage on city driving. Almost all my driving is interstate or highway, and I get great numbers. Probably half the reason is that when you are cruising or slowing, the engine does turn off and not use gas; when you accelerate, the engine turns on again.

 

Frankly, I think the HOV lanes are about politics. Really, what's the point of shooting driver-occupied-only hybrids (which are also super low emissions cars) down the HOV lane while the rest of the non-hybrid traffic sits at idle or near-idle in the other lanes, making more smog. Open up the third lane to everyone and relieve a bit of the congestion and everyone wins. Well, except for those twit hybrid drivers who parctically shove everyone out of their way so they can get out to the left lane, where they'll promptly cut in front of a faster car and then race up to.... 60mph.

 

toyota and honda use different ways of implementing their hybrid technology. the prius can run soley on electric power and the motor just jump starts in when the car is moving... sort of like pushing a manual car and poping the clutch with the key "on".

hondas system has the engine working full time and uses the motor to assist the gas engine... consequently toyotas system has been superior and honda will be releasing a Diesel version of the accord rather than a hybrid accord since the camry hybrid would stomp all over the accord hybrid... the diesel should make it interesting.

 

The difference, though, is that the MINI is not a hybrid, and so it doesn't have electric motors working to get the car moving when the gas engine is shut off, like the Prius does. Different system.


Heaven forbid!!

 

Its not about emissions nor politics. Its about relieving traffic congestion. Less emission may be a byproduct but they are there as an incentive to have less cars come in the city (any city). Opening the lanes to everyone defeats the purpose of having the incentive. Allowing hybrids to drive on them encourages people to buy them.

 

But if it was about relieving congestion, how does giving passes to hybrids help? Giving them a pass means that they can use the HOV lanes when only the driver is occupying the car. That's not "high occupancy", and it doesn't reduce the number of cars on the road. If everyone got a hybrid, and got HOV lane stickers, you'd have the same situation as everyone driving solo in their non-hybrid cars.

I think if you're going to have HOV lanes, then they should require at least 3 adults per vehicle (not two teenagers, not a woman with a two year old in a car seat, not one guy in a Prius) to use them - NO exceptions. If the idea is to get more people (drivers) into fewer cars - "high occupancy" - then make the rules so that happens.

 

we have no such lanes that you call HOV here in RI...atleast not that im aware of

 

HOV lanes were created to encourage carpooling, the biggest improvement in gas mileage one can make. Some areas have HOV-3 lanes, which are meant for three or more people per vehicle. While a van might not get the greatest mileage, filling that van with six people for a carpool makes it more efficient than any hybrid. It's all about people per mile per gallon. Say the van gets 20mpg. With six people, the van is getting 120pmpg. This assumes that each person would ordinarily be driving their own car to work. Say these people would all be driving cars that get 40mpg each. With all of them driving alone, the result is 6.67pmpg. HOV lanes and the pmpg benefits only work if the people riding together would ordinarily be driving separately to the same destination or thereabouts. In other words, a family taking a trip together using the HOV lane is not using the lane as intended, but are given a go on a technicality. If opening an HOV lane to single occupant hybrids creates the sale of more hybrids and solo hybrid drivers that would ordinarily be carpooling together, then the net effect is negative. See the 'pmpg' example above.

The lanes are HOV for a reason. Hybrids should follow the same rule. If four people carpool in a hybrid that gets an (optimistic) 50 mpg, you have a whopping 200pmpg.

Now, that big old diesel bus that gets about 10mpg is a fuel hog for sure, but with 50 people on board? Do the math.

 

+1


True, but considering that the HOV lane is almost always the #1 (left) lane, and traffic in that lane is usually travelling at 75-85 mph (fuel economy be damned), I'd rather NOT have the buses out in that lane. The Tahoe buses are on I-80 between the Bay Area and Tahoe all the time, and they tear along at 80mph. Props to them for keeping up with traffic when they're in the left lane, but I feel that it would be much safer if they had the same speed and lane restrictions that the big-rigs have. They're basically the same size, but they hang out in the left lane and won't move over for anyone.

But that's an argument for a different thread.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, and I am not advocating buses in the leftmost lanes, HOV or not. Certain areas/states open the right shoulder up for buses only. THey can mostly crawl along (getting better mileage as a bonus) even if the travel lanes are blocked up with traffic. Rt 66 in VA is a good example of this. There is a left HOV-2 lane in use during rush hour that is open to all traffic during non-peak times. The shoulder is widened and has lane control signs for when it's used as a bus-only travel lane or as a non-travel shoulder.

On I-95 where I am, charter buses will sometimes claim the left-most lane and refuse to budge from it regardless of other traffic, despite it's restriction to vehicles 10,000lbs GVW or less. They will sometimes drive in 'trains' of two or more as well.

 

This is what I really hate. Even if they're going the speed of the fastest traffic, it seems unsafe that they're going that fast. And they drive those buses as if they're regular cars, following too closely and everything.

 

You guys stating that the system is smooth in your Prius and Insight are forgetting that hybrids drive on electric power at low speeds. The MINI has to actually start the engine before it moves, hence the delay.

Personally, I really don't want that system in my car.

 

Perhaps I should clarify -- the Prius turns off the engine when coasting _at any speed_, even when I am doing 75+mph on the interstate. When I press on the gas, the gas engine starts imperceptibly and I accelerate. There is no noticable delay, even at interstate speeds. Same thing works at low speeds, of course -- in fact, it takes a very light touch to prevent the gas engine from coming on when you accelerate (some Prius people have added an "EV-only" button hack to make that more possible).

 

Do the Prius' come with manual transmissions? Are they all automatics or CVTs? It seems like the hybrid operation would not work as smoothly with a manual transmission, but I don't know. Just curious.

 

No argument there. HOVs exist for one reason only (at least original) ... to relieve traffic congestion. HOV lanes encourage people to carpool (as Greatbear mentions). Its a solution to the traffic congestion problem.

Why give a pass to hybrid? I have no clue but it does provide an incentive to buy them. Maybe its a PC thing. Regardless, the original concept had nothing to do with emissions or politics. It was just to help all the commuters in the morning get wherever they are going in less time.

 

Prii only come as CVT automatics.

By the way, Colorado, at least, does not give HOV passes to hybrids.