edit: mods, wasn't sure the best forum to post this in, feel free to move it as you see fit

We took my wife's MINI in for service yesterday, and while we were waiting on her car to be serviced, took out an '07 Cooper S with 16" wheels/non-sport suspension. It was their demo car, so I didn't have a choice of spec, however, the good thing is that it had 2000 miles on the odo, so I didn't feel too bad beating on it a bit. They have a GREAT test drive route out at Flow, some nice twisty backroads. We followed a salesperson in front of us, but he certainly wasn't overly conservative (he got it up to 80 mph at one point!). A couple of impressions, in bullet point format:

-Direct injection is LOUD, when he started it up with the bonnet open, it was crazy how loud it clicked
-the sound is TOTALLY different than the R53 (as would be expected), I wasn't a big fan of the exhaust note either, not to mention, no burble is disappointing, and the clicking of the direct injection bothers me with the windows down
-throttle response was good, the active area of the throttle seems to be much higher in the pedal, I'm not sure if this is just different throttle calibration or the lack of parasitic drag from the supercharger, but I found myself using smaller throttle angles than on my wifes JCW. The R53 throttle seems to have a much more linear feel to it. The difference between 50% and 100% throttle in the R56 seemed almost negligible, while there is a big difference between the two in the JCW R53.
-Lag is not significant, but it is there. I found it to be most pronounced when in high gear (4-6), and cruising, then flooring the gas. It would respond, then it would take off a bit after that. Doing the same test in my wife's JCW R53 produced VERY different results (it simply took off). I didn't really notice the lag in any other situations, so they did a good job disguising it. Torque is very linear, and the car feels quicker than a regular R53. For those claiming its faster than an R53 JCW, sorry. . . . . no
-the sport button is gimmicky, why isn't it on all the time? IMO, there is only car in production where this kind of button makes sense, the M5 (where its 400 hp with it off, 500 with it on) the MINI can ALWAYS use the extra grunt
-I really don't like the interior. The HVAC controls feel cheap to me, and the speedo is flat out ridiculous (to be fair, I was never a fan of the center speedo, my wife's R53 has nav). Also, it feels like the dash leans toward the driver more, maybe its just the volleyball sized speedo playing tricks on me, but I wasn't a big fan of the interior, other than the fact that I DID like the seats better
-The turn signals and windshield wiper controls are INCREDIBLY aggravating. Anytime I tried to cancel a turn signal after a lane change, I ended up putting my signal back on the other way. This is not unique to me. The salesperson (who was leading the test drive in front of us) had the same problem on every lane change. The windshield wipers (it started raining partway through our drive), I just gave up on, and wiped the windshield myself each time by pressing it down (for one wipe)
-The radio/sound system is good, definitely better than my wife's (she has jsut the regular boost radio)
-Ride quality was superior to that of my wife's car. This might just be the difference between 16" and 17" wheels though, its hard to say. I can't say a whole lot about overall grip, b/c the tires were crap, but the suspension cornered flat (I even got the tail out on a really sharp turn, it seems well balanced still)

I can see how the car is more universally appealing (except the styling, I still think its ugly, but I recognize thats subjective), however, lets just say we won't be looking to trade-in for a long time.

Also, we talked to the dealer about JCW stuff for it, and they said they have a JCW car on order set to arrive in July, that a customer has already put a deposit down on it. They said the package should consist of a panel filter, exhaust, and ECU tuning, and should run around $2000 and provide about 20 hp. Remember, this is what they said, I don't know or can't verify the truth in it.

 

"-throttle response was good, the active area of the throttle seems to be much higher in the pedal, I'm not sure if this is just different throttle calibration or the lack of parasitic drag from the supercharger, but I found myself using smaller throttle angles than on my wifes JCW. The R53 throttle seems to have a much more linear feel to it. The difference between 50% and 100% throttle in the R56 seemed almost negligible, while there is a big difference between the two in the JCW R53.
-Lag is not significant, but it is there. I found it to be most pronounced when in high gear (4-6), and cruising, then flooring the gas. It would respond, then it would take off a bit after that. Doing the same test in my wife's JCW R53 produced VERY different results (it simply took off). I didn't really notice the lag in any other situations, so they did a good job disguising it. Torque is very linear, and the car feels quicker than a regular R53. For those claiming its faster than an R53 JCW, sorry. . . . . no"

After all the talk on this board about R53 JCW v R56 S performance comparisons, someone finally did what I haven't had time to do, as my dealer is an hour and a half away. I've been itching to hear a current JCW owner's impressions of the R56. Thanks for the concise review- it's good to get a head-to-head comparison from a credible source, one which confirms most of what I suspected.

 

I ordered my 06 JCW 7/06, got it 8/06. Pre-order mind set.... ; post order mind set.... . Conclusion.......I smart man! When I went in for the 10K service (changed oil at 3.5K), I saw the 07 and man........the height and shape of the front end and bonnet reminded me of the breadbox Scion! Blechhhh! Sorry 07 owners, I'm sure it's in the eye of the beholder but I like my R53

 

I own an '07 Cooper S.

I agree! It's amazingly loud. And after living with it a while, it's still weird when you get off the throttle in-gear and...the clicking completely goes away (which makes sense, since the engine shuts the injectors off, just as on any car). Then you get on the gas again, and clicky-clicky-clicky! Off you Motor.

I drove a JCW, and although it's definitely got some good top-end, I think the new car IS faster. I think I might just have to have a little test of this locally. On a closed track, of course...

Sadly, the sport button doesn't give you any extra power. It just tightens up the steering and reshapes the throttle response. (Supposedly. I can only detect the steering difference.)

I totally agree. I posted about this elsewhere and a lot of people suggest that I just had to get used to it. Now two months later, I still hate 'em. (The turn signals. Not the people. )

For me the turbocharger is a selling point itself. Turbos are easy to tune -- you can change boost levels, change turbo internals, or the whole turbo. But that's probably not the main focus for most people.

I do like the old styling a bit better -- the hood profile, in particular, is nice with the lower nose. But the new car mostly looks the same at a glance. I don't think most people could tell the difference.

Part of the reasoning for buying the new car is...that it's new. If I really wanted a MINI, and I couldn't afford the $25k for a new one, I'd definitely shop older ones. If you're in the market for a new car, the R56 MINI will be a satisfying purchase. But the improvements aren't so much that I'd run to trade in an R50/R53 model.

--Dan
Mach V
FastMINI.net

 

What year JCW did you drive? The comparison is only reasonable if it was a 2005 or 2006 JCW, IMO (due to the gearing changes). Of course you also drove the GP (mind you, I don't think a 3 or 4 minute drive of ANY car is enough to do it justice).

 

2005 and above R53 JCW and GP will best any R56 in any performance measurement... it's not even close.

 

Well said.

I've come to the somewhat sad conclusion that I don't like a single change that was made. I don't even consider the additional power an improvement -- it has a bit of brute-forcedness about it, especially under aggressive acceleration. The R53 may be a second slower but it has a finesse which I found lacking in my R56 test drive.

Although I hadn't planned on it, it's looking like I'm going to hang on to my R53...

 

You should have qualified that - stock R56 MCS. Also, the only performance measurement we're talking about is acceleration here. Not handling, not brakes. With the R56 being lighter and having the same brakes, I'd expect it to outbrake a stock (factory - therefore JCW brakes) JCW or GP. The handling would probably also be tough competition (assuming SS on R56), thanks also to the lighter weight.

 

Wow, your comments mirror my observations completely! I think some feal it's faster (R56) because the torque comes on quicker and harder. The difference is that on the JCW, it just keeps building in a very linear fashion. Looking at the magazines for comparison, the new S is clearly faster than the old S. Maybe between the S and the JCW. My stock JCW will hit 60 in under 6 sec and the 1/4 in the low 14's.

The 07 I test drove also did not have the sport suspension and I felt that the suspension seemed to have less control, more floatiness when I drove more aggressively over hilly roads. I also did not care for the interior styling at all, though agree that the seats are far superior.

 

hehe, I somehow "credible" ! I can certainly see why the new car is more universally appealling (save the sytling, but thats subjective). Its definitely a nice car. Its just not more appealling to ME as a lot of the endearing quirks of the R53 are no longer there (no burble, no supercharger whine, no power outlet in the boot, no HVAC vent in the glovebox). It feels more like a BMW (which is kind of a mixed bag).

 

Been a while since I drove my brother's JCW, but the only R56 I've driven had sport suspension (so I can only be of very limited help). I wish I would have driven a base R56 that day to compare.

While it hugged the road like a MINI should, and would most likely annoy the common person, I would hardly call the Sport Suspension harsh. You can feel the road, it transmits bumps, you can feel what's going on, as you should. My brothers was harsher. To me it's bare minimum.

Anyone driven a hypersport suspension yet?

 

I didn't really evaluate the suspension on my test drive too much, considering it was on 16" all season tires on the base suspension. It stayed flat during cornering that I did, probably because the tires gave up so easily that it didn't really have a chance to roll though. The ride was definitely less harsh than my wifes car though (I don't think her car is overly harsh though).

 

I have not driven a '05 or '06 JCW but I can imagine the driving experience is much more visceral than what would you get from the stock R56 S.

 

i thought the sport button is supposed to give you overboost

 

Nope. Overboost is automatic in higher gears.

--Dan
Mach V
FastMINI.net

 

I have a 2006 JCW, and finally had the opportunity to spend some quality time in an R56--I posted this recently in Edmunds, in a forum on comparing the R53 and R56:


I finally had the opportunity to spend some extended time with a manual 2007 MINI S, and while I agree with most of the article, there are some things I have issue with. For reference, I own a 2006 MCS, with John Cooper Works engine kit/exhaust, suspension and brakes (yes, it broke the pocket book, but this car is unbelievably fun on the track and still is practical around town).

The new car is hands down more efficient. I can't approach the fuel economy of the new car. But I can't believe the article states the new car sounds better. I'd take the engine note and supercharger whine of the previous generation any day--the new S is quieter, more refined for sure, but less visceral--the older S sounds just a tad bit angry, whereas the new car sounds is smoother. I'll take the attitude over the smoothness in a sporty car. The older S is just more fun to drive, although the new S is more practical. The new car is only 10 lbs lighter from what I've read, not 70. That is minimal; for practical purposes they're the same.

As for engine performance, the new power plant is awesome--the torque is great, and the overboost is sublime. It's definitely quicker than a stock S, very little turbo lag. There have been some that have said its as quick as a 2006 JCW. It's not, but its still darned quick. The next generation Stage II JCW however should be significantly better than the previous generation (I think the stage I will be close to the previous generation, maybe a tad slower). I'm not sure what they're comparing with regard to track times--probably a pre 2004 S. The 2005 and 2006 had a gearing change that substantially improved acceleration and the 0-60 times. They should be closer than one second, but the new generation should be faster.

The article states there isn't much difference in the gearbox. I'd disagree with this--the new gearbox is substantially improved, and I wish I could transfer it over to my car. I can throw it into gear more confidently and smoother than I can on my 2006. Clutch feels about the same.

I agree sport button probably doesn't make much of a difference; an automag track tested the new Mini with the sport button on and off, and there was no difference in lap times.

Ride quality is unquestionable improved on the newer Mini.

As for suspension, I drove one with the standard suspension--I think this is would be great for everyday driving, but there was a bit too much body role for me. I'd definitely opt for the sport suspension on the new Mini (My car is slightly lower and much, much tighter than the newer Mini, but it should be with the JCW suspension).

I definitely prefer the steering on the previous generation--the newer steering is too soft for me; it's definitely easier to turn at low speeds, but it sacrifices road feel. I'm not nearly as confident taking a turn at high speed in the newer Mini as I am in mine (but thats not just the steering; the suspension is also partly to blame).

The brakes are, as the article suggested, superb. They are for all practical purposes the JCW brakes I have on my car (I believe the pads are different though). Simply fantastic for a car in this segment.

As for the interior, again, give me the old layout. It's cleaner, more ergonomic, and doesn't look as cheap and plasticky. Don't even get me started on the new speedo and nav system...

The new seats are an improvement. Hands down winner to the new Mini here.

The new Mini is a more civilized traveler; its a quietet, more luxurious ride. But it comes at the expense of a more quirky, visceral driving experience. This is what BMW was going for; specifically to make the Mini more appealing to the masses--they've succeeded in spades. The car is now a bit more mainstream, which most will probably prefer. Personally, I enjoy the 2006 more--its a more entertaining, visceral drive, with the snarling and popping. I truly miss that on the 2007. That being said, as an everyday driver, the 2007 is an improvement, and despite the changes, its still every bit a Mini.

I couldn't agree with you more about what you said about the JCW--the new Mini, while definitely quicker than a stock S, doesn't feel nearly as quick as a 2006 JCW--the JCW is substantially quicker and more linear than the new stock S. And the turn signal setup is awful, but I supposed I could get used to that with (alot) of time.


One thing I'd add: The gaps on the plastic arch were absolutely huge, and looked terrible on the first few R56's I saw at the Chicago car show. This has been completely fixed on the R56's I saw in Milwaukee--there was no gap at all. I still prefer the look of the R53, but the production R56's looked put together much better than the ones I saw on the car show floor.

As for what you added about the Stage I JCW, that appears to be spot on from what Gabe reported over on Motoringfile.

With regard to the 0-60 times, Edmunds had the new S a full second faster than the old S--but they didn't specify which year S; I suspect it was an early version prior to the gear changes. I think they had a 0-60 of 6.5 seconds with the new S.

 

How are you getting these numbers? R&T tests show 6.3/6.4 for an 06 JCW. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=80382

 

sounds like we have pretty similar opinions of it, I thought I was re-reading my review when I read your post. I was really glad I drove the R56 though, as now I feel confident that we did the right thing getting the '06 JCW, it is, IMO, still the best of the breed for me.

Now if I could just get my wife to let me drive it every once in a while. . .

 

I seriously doubt that a JCW is faster than a 07 MCS. I am more than happy to prove it at the track. Any takers? I am in the Phoenix area. We can go to Firebird or Speedworld.

 

Your challenge only really means something with the same driver in both... just a reminder. Just curious - have you spent much time in an 05/06 JCW?

 

You can get a pretty good idea using a stopwatch, and/or by doing in-gear pulls from various speeds. Also, you can swap drivers to repeat the tests.

--Dan
Mach V
FastMINI.net

 

What edge said...


Having spent a day with the R56, and owning a 2006 JCW, I'd say exactly the opposite--I seriously doubt the 07 is faster than the JCW. The 2007 stage I JCW, even with less horsepower, may be the same or even a little faster--time will tell--but claiming the stock R56 is faster than a 2006 JCW is wishful thinking. We'll have to get some track times at a reasonable altitude to confirm it.

IMHO, just as the 07 feels quicker than the stock 06, the 06 JCW feels quicker than the stock 07 by the same margin the stock 07 feels quicker than the stock 06, if that makes any sense....

 

We can still look at the trap speeds and etc to eliminate driver error. I am totaly up for it if anyone is in the area.

 

Have you driven a 2006 JCW?

 

Not an 06. I have driven an 04 and I realize that the gearing is different.

It's ok if I am wrong. I would just like to prove it either way because there is much speculation on this site.