That would be sooooooo awesome!

Thanks for the link! Yeah, C&D is the one car mag that tends to want to always get the best numbers. I read in the Elise forum that owners could never come close to some 0-60 numbers claimed because some mags dumped the clutch at 8K and normal owners wouldn't do that

CS is great. Did my first "mod" ... catback and now it sounds like it "should" and supposedly picked up significant (relatively speaking for what a catback can do) HP, I think because it dumps the secondary cats. Thinking of adding headers but the prices are insane

V6 Mustang ... you must have ate him for breakfast

SLK? If its a base one, you will probably still have him for breakfast SLK AMG ... run away ... fast (although I don't think they are meant for the track. R&T slalom times are mediocre at best, MINI does better ... but in straight line acceleration ... no contest) Theres a review over on R&T.

I think even being able to have a discussion comparing a stock R56 MCS and an JCW R53 is amazing. Speaks well of the R56.

Interesting thread. I'll throw in my $.02 since I had the chance to drive two R56's this past Monday while my 06 JCW was in for maintenance.

First impression, the car seemed quicker than my JCW. After my second drive in another R56 similiarly equipped. Some of that speed, while watching the speedometer, was more of a sensation of speed due to lack of feedback from the car. It pulls like my wifes Jetta. Great torque down low that makes you feel like you are going somewhere. Don't get me wrong. It's a quick car no doubt.

Magazines publish the 0-60 times for both the R53 JCW and R56. One thing that no one has mentioned which has a large impact on 0-60 times are the wheels. The factory JCW comes with S-heavies. Not a performance wheel at all. Though I have no idea what the weight of the 16" R56 wheels are. I doubt if they'll cause a hernia during removal like the S-heavies.

I think the masses will enjoy the R56 more than the R53. For me. I'll keep my R53. Not that I think it is superior. It's just my style of car. Similiar to how my wife and I enjoyed her BMW Z3 more after driving a BMW Z4. You get a whole different feeling between the cars.

Now to add something that I didn't like at all about the R56. No more height adjustable seatbelts. Why? I like my seatbelts to ride my shoulders unlike how they rode my neck in the R56. Besides that. Good car.

With regard to the Mustang, your right, it wasn't even close, but it wasn't a fair fight to begin with. Fortunately I was the only one that knew that from the beginning. He does have quite a bit more respect for MINI's now, although he insists he wouldn't be caught dead driving one (Even after I pointed out my wife in my MINI could probably beat him handily in his Mustang, although she's a pretty good driver).

He's getting the V-6 SLK, about 265 HP I believe, not the AMG fortunately--I have hope that with some work, I might be able to keep it tight on a road track. Fortunately the only time we could have gotten on an oval together this year has already gone (and on the oval, its pace car controlled anyway, no passing, although you can get an idea how the cars compare by cheating and letting the pace car get way ahead). He's keeping tight lipped about wether he's taking the SLK out though, and we wouldn't be able to get on the road track at the same time until this fall. By that time, maybe some driving courses (Of course he wants to go with me, I've got to find a way to go secretly), and we can repeat the debacle all over again.

The driving courses would be more than worth it. I need them, and more importantly, I really, really want to drive a Ferrari.

No worries ... breakfast ... yum

Ferrari ... sigh ... Beautiful cars, fine heritage but not something I would want to live with everyday. For the price of the first service, you could buy another MINI\

Now where are those Lotto tickets with the winning numbers

My JCW came w/ 17" runflats and webspokes, the lightest of the stock wheels. I traded them out for Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2's, and put them on Team Dynamics Pro Racing 1 rims, saving mucho poundage per corner. I would do the same w/ a new R56, were it to grace my garage. No doubt that unsprung weight is a killer. Re: speed- I agree, it is a bit silly to talk about fast if other kinds of machines are the measure, but we're driving a car which can stomp most steroid-laden power plants on the right roads and still hold a week's worth of groceries or 2 sets of golf clubs or an amp and a couple of guitars. I know lots of folks w/ faster cars who switched to a MINI for all the reasons we love them.

Well, the originator of this thread isn't speculating, he described an actual comparison of both cars, driven by him.

I have a friend who owned a Ferrari, before I knew him, so I never got to ride in it or drive it. He got rid of it--not because it broke down, but because it was terrible as a an (almost) daily driver (He bought it with the thought that it would be a blast to drive on the track, but that it could also double as a fun car to drive around town--the same exact rationale I used when I bought my MINI); he hardly ever got out of first or second gear. And apparently the car doesn't ride around so great in first gear all the time...So it wound up sitting in his garage all the time.

I'd rather get a Exige S than a Ferrari though. Either is way, way beyond my skill as a driver at this point though. However, I could see myself in a stock Elise someday, if I ever have enough time, as that car would virtually always be used for the track or spirited driving.

Good points...

One of the things I like about my MINI, as compared to say my friend's heavily modded WRX STI, is that the Mini is a viceral driving experience with a fabulous sense of speed, even though the 0-60 speed is, IMO, modest. Having a car that's fun and driveable at lower speeds, but still with exhilerating effect, is more sustainable for me than having a full race rocket that causes me to push the envelope and risk level a bit too far. I'm the first to admit that I love supercars such as an Enzo, but in addition to their insane cost and maintenence, I wouldn't expect to have much fun driving a machine in only 1st and 2nd gear. But then, if I could afford an Enzo and it's upkeep, I'd also be able to afford a membership at a private track and the track school necessary to keep one on the track.

Just to clarify a few things that there are decisive answers to:

- the R56 does have a power port in the boot. Its on the left hand side high but below the cover.

- the R56 does have an HVAC vent in the glove box. It has a rotating vent that allows you to regulate the airflow as well.

As for the rest of this discussion, its just so odd that the R53 boosters here just refuse tp accept that the R56 and all the future JCW variations that we are yet to see are going to be a notch up in performance from the R53. Period. Thats the way it goes. Performance cars tend to evolve to higher performance and this is no exception. Some of the posters here are on board with that, and that's great - their concern is obviously all about performance, and they care not to kid themselves about it, or carry any senseless allegiance to a car which is essentially an engineering solution, one that was learned from and improved in the next iteration.

For the others its not really about performance, no matter what they say. Its about the performance feeling - the car feels faster, sounds faster, rides faster, visceral - whatever. That's fine, I'm not knocking it. But this is a completely different state of mind than somebody who is going to race or autoX their car to win - somebody whose priority is performance. When you try to stand with a foot in both camps then you start to look and sound incredible - a poser.

The R53 is a completely different driving experience - to me its akin to a classic sports car - rough around the edges, uncompromising to a connected driving feel. All that wrapped into a car with contemporary conveniences. Its like having your cake and eating it too. But its over - they are not making that car anymore, and frankly we have no case to expect Mini to keep on doing that. It would be suicide for the mark, and it would continue to show worse and worse against the competition. The 56 answers to those market forces and ups the performance ante at the same time. The door is open to tune it to satisfy the 53 urge if that's your thing - it will never be the same, but there is certainly lots of headroom for "visceral". I can't wait to see some R56 buyers 53erize their cars - some have already started.

So we can tie our underwear in a knot arguing 0-60 times between the new and old, or we can celebrate everything we love about the old, and choose to be excited about discovering the strengths, nuances and potential of the new.

So enough of the wallowing. Who's moving forward? Just put in in the title line of your post - I'm moving forward.

Nobody, huh?

Must be a stunned silence after White Roof Radio #156.

I was going to post a similar thread.... yesterday, after some rare free time, I was able to take a test drive in an R56 and as far as first impressions go, I was pleasantly surprised. I won't go in the "hp/torque" debate but as far as I've experienced, the R56 is sufficient enough for me to seriously think about switching. Mind you, my 05 MCS is no slouch.... alta 15%pulley, Milltek exhaust, lighter wheels/tires combo, etc. What really caught my attention is how easy it is to drive around just as a regular daily driver. I know that the same can be said about the R53 but for me, the ride firmness, the sounds, are all part in parcel of a driving experience than just a typical drive.... that being said, it shouldn't be noted as a bad thing..... the one thing that really got my attention is the brakes.... I can only hope that my brakes on the R53 be as good as the ones that come with the R56. fit and finish, as far as I can tell, is pretty good.... all in all, makes me think twice about going down the R56 path.....

The R56 MCS brakes are effectively the exact same brakes as the JCW brakes on the R53, only without the red paint and Works logo.

If you want that braking power - buy the JCW brakes for your R53. Problem solved.

I should've added without going the BBK route...... out of the box, the R56's brakes are better than the stock ones in my R53

Well I wouldn't rush if I was you because your car looks sweet. What kind of wheels do you have there - I have to admit that I am a sucker for simple looking 5 spokes.

Thanks.... Those are team dynamics wheels.... very light.... and yes, those are going to be transferred over if ever I do get my R56.....

I will. You best said it here.

Not every person is the same and wants the same out of a car. I prefer a car like you described above. It's the same reason after driving a Z4 the wife and I chose to purchase a Z3. Totally different style of driving. Just because someone doesn't get or want a R56 doesn't mean they are a R56 hater.

I think the R56 is a great car. But as far as the R56 being a quicker car based on the owner instead of road tests. I've seen many times where a MC out performs a MCS on the twisties. It's all about the driver in the curves and for the most part MINIs are bought because of handling. Not straight line performance.

That was no suprise. Gabe is a good person and I listen to him on most everything he says but everyone knows he is a BMW fan at heart. Nothing wrong with that. So it was obvious he would choose the R56 over the R53 based on how it performs and feels compared to the current BMW line. The R56 is like a current BMW whereas the R53 feels more like a BMW of previous generations.

To some degree I agree with you about the R56 is more like a current BMW. However I would move the analogy a little and say the R53 is part Rover/part BMW and the R56 is 100% BMW. The difference is obvious to me in every touch point. I'm certainly not here to say what is right for you or anyone else, but the difference is dramatic once you drive the two (seriously drive) back to back.

If I had the garage space, I'd keep my R53 forever but I'd drive my R56 everyday.

That, plus it became the "GP Podcast" for so long I stopped listening. It's not for those who view the Mini as a British car.