Hi peeps, i'm in the market to buy a digital SLR and was hoping to get some opinions on which way to go. I know there are a lot of you pro snappers out there with good advice to give, and witnessing the great shots many of you achieve means i'm all ears on any advice. :smile:
I don't have much technical knowledge about cameras but am super keen to learn. I'm also a graphic designer by trade & consider myself to be fairly artistic , so getting more into photography would be a great asset in that respect.

Obviously I want something not too expensive for my first dip into the digital world. But at the same time I would like something that I can upgrade as my skills improve. With this in mind, i've been very interested in the new Canon 350D (I believe it's called Rebel XT in the US) - it seems to be extremely good value with an 8 Megapixel sensor which would be handy for a lot of design purposes. It also seems to be very highly regarded in all the reviews i've seen, and has many accessory options, compatability with other lenses etc.



So what do you all think? A good choice, or should I consider anything else?
Any opinions are most welcome and greatly appreciated...

 

I would look at the Canon XT and the Nikon D70 (or depending on the timeframe the D70s).

You need to go to a store and get your hands on both of these cameras. Get the sales person to explain the operation of both to you and have them explain to you how do to things like change the aperture, the shutterspeed, and the ISO.

Keep in mind that 8 MP isn't everything. While the D70 does have a 6 MP sensor, you can still make high quality prints with it (I'm talking 16x20 or 20x30). The thing to remember is that D-SLR sensors are *a lot* larger than P&S sensors so they produce cleaner images because they get hit with more light (i.e. each pixel is bigger so it has more light information to use to determine true color, thus it can produce an overall cleaner image).

You're not buying a camera body, you're buying into a camera system with a D-SLR. Nikon and Canon generally have some similar ergonomics within their lines, so I would pick a camera that you are comfortable holding and can easily access the settings.

Also, the "kit lens" that comes with the D70 is generally regarded as being a better lens than the one that comes with the XT (unless you sport for the IS lens for $600).

If you get a D70, to fully process RAW you will also need to either spend $100 for Nikon Capture or get Photoshop CS.

You're also going to want to get a 1 GB or larger memory card.

Don't forget to purchase a set of filters for your lens. I would get a UV filter (knocks down glare a bit, but is also referred to as a protective filter) and a circular polarizer (controls reflections).

You will also want to get a "hurricane blower" to clean dust off the sensor.

I would feel comfortable getting either the XT or the D70 in that range. The XT is a bit smaller and like I said the ergonomics are different (not better, not worse, just different). It's a matter of personal choice, so get out there and start playing with the hardware.

 

Thanks DiD for the great info. I'll definitely get out there and see these two cameras face-to-face, so I can get a proper feel for which one would suit me better.

Being a designer, Photoshop is already taken care of.

One question, what is a "P&S" sensor? Canon refer to theirs as a CMOS sensor, and it now comes with a DIGIC II image processor which offers better image quality, faster processing, less power consumption.

I have seen a lot of the retail stores here offering enthusiast kits, so i'll check these out also to see what the advantages/extras are.

 

I'm CRAZY about my Fuji S-5000, which Fuji replaced with the S5100 (it's as good or better at pretty much the same price)...if your budget is around $300 or so. It made great 5x7 & 8x10 enlargements of landscapes I shot, which I framed and gave for Christmas!Easy to hold and shoot with...'auto' setting works great, although as you get better, manual controls allow you creativity. Wish I knew how to attach a photo to this, but I'm still learning too.
Google fuji s 5000 or 5100 and see where it takes you...that's where I got mine...
hugh

 

P&S = Point and Shoot

For instance a Nikon 8700 (a P&S camera) has an 8 MP sensor but it is considerably smaller than either the 6 MP sensor in the D70 or the 8 MP sensor in the XT. Therefore each of the pixels on the 8 MP 8700 sensor gets hit with quite a bit less light.

 

Go with the Canon

I've got 3 EOS cameras (all film), the oldest one being about 12 years old. All work like they're brand new. Part of my original decision to go with the EOS system was based on Canons decision to put the lens motor in the lens and make an all digital contact between the body and lenses.

I have one suggestion however, don't waste your money on any poly carbonate EOS lens. Unfortunately, if you get the kit, you're getting a poly lens. You'll see a very noticeable difference in image quality when comparing images taken with the plastic lens vs. those taken with a glass lens.

good luck!!

 

If you don't mind my asking - what do you advise as the best all around not insanely expensive lens to go with the Canon?

 

My girlfriend and I went camera shopping last week for an entry level dSLR. On the list were all the usual suspects (EVOLT, 350 XT, D70, *istDS). First stop was Best Buy, figuring they'd have a pretty decent selection and would leave us alone while we pressed the buttons. All the cameras were, for amateur purposes, nice cameras. You're going to have to pick one based on your own personal preferences as there isnt one that stands out from the crowd. I'll give you my take:

EVOLT
Nice camera, lots of gimmicks. Sideswing mirror, different viewfinder, 4/3 format, extra high popup flash, dust shaking sensor. Overall, I felt this camera was a pretty good value, especially the two lens package that they're offering now. But like Dave stated earlier, you're buying into a system if you truly intend to grow and the price to play with new lenses was astronomical and limited as they're all designed around this 4/3 format. Supposedly this is going to get better as more companies adopt this technology. Pretty high quality feel with a weather resistant (but not proof) finish.

Rebel XT
I wanted to like this camera but it left me uninspired. Canon has a pretty diversified "system" that makes it easy to grow with but the body is an ergonomic disaster. The camera is small, but not too small. The grip however is WAY TO SMALL. As an ergonomics engineer, I forbid you to buy this camera without holding it. I'm not a large guy nor do I have large fingers. My girlfriend found it uncomfortable as well. We picked up the 20D for comparison and that thing is heaven. Too much camera and too much $$$ for us though. The rebel XT looks really cheap but I doubt thats an issue as canon has a pretty decent reputation. Lots of buttons on this guy. If you can live with the ergonomics, I hear buy the silver one as the black scratches very easily. If you can swing the cash for the 20D, its a no brainer.

D70
I'll consider my thoughts on this irrelevant as the new model is close. Its a pretty large camera thats easy to hold. Pretty high quality feel but nothing special. I dont think the size is changing on the new model. I'd consider this the camera that the other had to measure up to, and they all do. The S is bring some new features but i dont believe any are deal makers or breakers.

*ist DS
Another baby camera but now with decent ergonomics. Takes AA batteries just like the addon flashes (its a SYSTEM!!). Takes SD cards while most others use compact flash (maybe a plus as its becoming a standard in P&S) Viewfinder is much bigger than the competition. Pretty high quality feel but again, nothing overly impressive. LCD is slightly better than competition. Pretty button free, just one dial. This camera can be used with any pentax lens ever made, although some require adapters so there are lots of opportunities to experiment with some really decent, really inexpensive glass found on ebay or garage sales or whatever.


Again, most of these observations are mostly opinions and thats what it has to come down to. I dont think there is a bad camera in the bunch.

 

If you decide on Nikon I'd personally go with the D70 over the D70s for a beginner....there really isn't many new features in the D70s as it is not a new model but just an evolution of the existing D70....but the kicker is that some of the new features like improved auto focus etc are going to be given to existing d70 customers for free via a firmware update...this blows my mind and i'm thrilled to see a company do this. Canon seems to have the impression of new features mean new upgrade and they want you to upgrade your body every year....Nikon doesn't seem that way.

If you are stuck on the Canon - Dell has some great deals on them - albeit right now only on the silver body....you will prolly have to wait 3 weeks for them to get it out to you but with coupon codes you can save 200-250 bucks. Check out dpreview.com 300d/350d forum for those codes.

 

d70 kit if you add it to your cart at buydig.com is only 998 plus 100 rebate - so only 900 for the kit...plus if you need a printer - if you buy an epson you get an additional 100 off.

 

Any opinions regarding the D70s using Secure Digital cards, rather than compact flash?

 

The D70s doesn't use SD Cards, it uses the same CF Cards as the D70. It is the other new Nikon model, the D50, that uses only SD Cards. The D50 is a camera that slots in below the D70/D70s in the Nikon range of cameras...it is limited a bit compared to the D70/s but is aimed more at current P/S users that want an SLR, but one that behaves a bit more like a P/S - Default settings use a different colorspace etc, more sharpening etc to deliver more of a finished photo look straight from the camera to reduce post processing...this does not imply at all though that the image from the d50 is better then that of the d70 with or without post processing.

 

I just got back from Best Buy trying out the Canons. I had almost ruled out the Rebel based on your thoughtful feedback but now I am leaning towards it again. Unlike you I thought the grip was fine, and, on the other hand, the 20D was gigantic! The grip of the 20D was fine as well, but the camera body overall suprised me with its size, really quite a bit bigger then the Rebel - to the point that I think it could impede wanting to actually tote it around. Yes, the price difference of the Rebel shows in the materials a bit (more plasticy) but based on the sucess of the prior version and great reviews I'm thinking it is the main contender again...

 

Casey, my mistake, you are correct. I mistook the D70s for the D50.

 

I'm sure it would be nice for some or they wouldnt have made it that way!? :smile: I guess smaller is cooler or your wouldnt be on the MINI board! Did you take a few shots with it? It took nice pictures but I didnt like how the shutter was postioned compared to the 20D, it felt a little far back.

 

Well I took everybody's advice, went to a store and got a feel for my preferred models (EOS Rebel XT, Nikon D70 & EOS 20D). It's the best advice you can give any amateur in the market for a dSLR. I was really impressed with the size and professional appearance of these beasts compared to my previous experience of website product photos only. After getting a good feel for all the cameras in question, I have to agree with macncheese in that I didn't really enjoy the grip of the XT compared to the 20D and D70. Although I didn't hate it, it wasn't quite as comfortable as the other two.

These are where my dilemmas begin as an Aussie. The Canon XT is $300 cheaper than the D70 here & has 2 more megapixels (someone please put me in line if this is insignificant, I just look at it through the eyes of a graphic designer where a bigger image is better for print purposes). I prefer the black XT, however, it's only available in the silver finish here at the mo. It also only comes in "kit" guise for now, so I can't save anything to get the preferred 17-85mm. However, as DiD stated, the Nikon kit comes with the better quality 18-70mm lens, and I prefer the build quality and comfort level. The 20D is a little too expensive for me to convince my wife, so it looks like a tough choice between the XT and D70

I could buy in the US when I come over in a couple of weeks and save a bundle but am unsure of the warranty situation when I come back to Australia should anything go wrong. I guess i'll just have to do a few more hands-on sessions with the two to see which one I lean towards.

Thanks all for your help and great advice, looking forward to making an inspired decision soon...

 

M1N1GUN, if you decide you want to buy from a US site, and need a US shipping address, I mail stuff home to Aus regularly and am more than willing to help out with things like that.
The memory issue of CF v SD. Compact Flash is an older format, using a bit more power, and I believe it's slower, than SD. However, if you want the option of microdrives (multiple gb storage devices), these use the Compact Flash interface.

 

There are several places that will ship to an international address - b&h being one of them. www.bhphotovideo.com

The only stipulation they have is that they will only ship to the billing address of the credit card.

do a search on dpreview.com under the forums. I thought I had read that many of the US warrenties cover it anywhere in the world.

 

Picked up an *ist dS last week with a 40mm 2.8 prime. I'm not even close to a professional but I'm really impressed with this camera. The yuck on the left is the result of me working with what i got. The only shot I had was through an iron fence and I didnt want to crop out the horse's butt.

--
Cheese