Guys, so if anyone has access to the Webbmotorsports forums, you can check this out.

http://store.webbmotorsports.com/for...pic.php?t=1190

To cut the suspense:
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:03 am Post subject: I REALLY MISS THE PULLEY PARTIES!
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Anyone interested in a nostalgia pulley party? I'm not sure which market would even bear it, but I sure do miss seeing everyone!
Randy


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We're a pretty big group, and Randy flies for United (hub in Dulles)... Any chance some people are still looking for a WMS pulley and other various sundries?

I am in SW VA (Virginia Tech) but would be glad to help coordinate, as long as it's on a weekend!

-EK

 

For the most part LDG takes care of our performance needs and its hard to beat Johns specials.

 

Not everyone here is currently a customer of LDG, but I certainly hear good things about him and his service.

However, I'd be interested in seeing what Randy could offer, prices, etc. So, please consider me an "interested pending more info".

 

I don't understand why anyone would opt for a "pulley party" over a top-notch operation such as Lucky Dog. Does follow up service not mean anything?

 

"I don't understand why anyone would opt for a "pulley party" over a top-notch operation such as Lucky Dog. Does follow up service not mean anything?"

most metropoitan areas have excellent choices in care for our cars that did not exist when they first arrived and the WMS pulley parties were conceived.
In southern California, anything offered by anyone "traveling" to this area can now be purchased for less money, in a more timely fashion, at the car owners convenience at 5 or more excellent vendors.
Why would anyone not support thier regular local shops, wherever they are, the guys who will be there every day of the week for them?

 

And IMO Central Coast Coopers is one of the best

 

Yeah, I have had good experience at LDG, but thought a pulley party would be fun and different. Randy has a reputation of being a blast at the parties and people seem to really enjoy them as events. Since he was interested in doing another (possibly) I was hoping there might be some more people in the area that are interested... as certainly not everyone goes to LDG or maybe just for a change.

 

This would be why in the past, DCMM has not been behind Randy's visits to DC. The club didn't block the visit, just didn't promote or endorse it. John has been a very strong supporter of DCMM almost since the club started. John has graciously hosted the club at his shop on weekends for tech days and provided some great presentations in the past, the backing John has provided first as Glenelg Service Center and now as LDG has been terrific.

I like Randy a whole lot, heck I've got one of his pulleys and first HDI boxes in my car, and provided I had the cash would confidently have him do more work on my car... But my main motivation for having him do the work was because I was in Vegas when he was and I didn't have other options out here. If I hadn't left DC, I probably would have ended up getting my pulley from John and a JCW intake from Helix...

For the club to sanction a competetor of one of their strongest backers from outside the area to come in and do business is a bit dangerous. However, if just like the last time Randy came to town, several members on their own decided to invite Randy in for a pulley party... well that's something different... But, such a discussion might be better suited to the Mid-Atlantic forum on NAM as opposed to the DCMM forum.... Especially since such a visit would probably attract MINI owners from all around the Mid-Atlantic states an not just DC...

 

I kinda wondered how long it would take before
A) Randy realized how much money he was going to lose by discontinuing pulley parties.
B) Businesses would spring up(locally) to provide the same services for less money with aftermarket support thereby blowing WMS out of the water.

I know for instance that Pete(bwroofchex) in Worcester over at DT Automotive has rendered Randy and the services he used to provide totally obsolete.Not only does he do pullies for a fraction of what Randy used to charge, but if there's EVER anything that goes wrong , you have access to immediate remedy. Don't get me wrong, I was one of Randy's staunchest supporters and I have a bunch of stuff in my car installed by him, but that was when there really wasn't any alternatives. Just another dinosaur.

 

Wow, ok, well I guess the long and short of it is "no, not interested." That's fine by me, I'm 3 1/2 hours from DC anyway.

Sorry to everyone who thought I was trying to stage a coup for local business. I have been to LDG and Helix both, given them both my $$ and was very satisfied. I'm all for the local shops as well, but simply thought this would be an interesting change of pace, a bit more grassroots. I agree about follow-up, etc, didn't mean to hit a nerve, again, just thought it would be fun!

 

That is exactly what is wrong with his business model. It dont do no good to have a part installed by him only to have it break and then what? Who is going to fix it? Major pain.

I agree, go to LDG. In fact, I bet MOS or MOT will install one.

 

<RANT>
There's something very sad and distrurbing about what happened in this discussion. Talk about hijacking threads.

Okay, no more vinyl parties - there's plenty of those shops in the area so no more. Oh no -wait - we like A/C, so that's okay.

Alright then - no one can get any work done at the Dragon - that's just stupid because you can't get any follow up work done. Oh no - wait - we think that's fun, so that's okay.

Really people - different strokes for different folks, live and let live. Don't force me to get my work done at LDG and I won't insist you go to a pulley party. Unless you have something to share about the QUALITY of his work, both installation and long-term, then start another thread to bash the idea.

The only good suggestion I saw was to move it to the Mid Atlantic forum, so there was no indication of club sponsorshp (but since when was everything discussed in this forum sanctioned or approved by the club. Seriously - this forum has served as a regional discussion where the people here may or may not be paid members. Maybe it's time for a password just to enter the forum). Seriously.

Sad. Disturbing.
</RANT>

 

$115 for a pulley
$285 (for 45 minutes labor!)
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$400

I'm all for nostalgia but..............that's just highway robbery.I don't care how much of a good show the man puts on or what a great guy he is. I totally understood it when there were no other options and the man had to fly himself and his tools to do the job, but that just isn't the case any more. Is there anything you need doing that you're willing to pay $300 +/hr for? I'm your man!

PS I had a rear sway bar installed by him and needed follow up adjustments, so I was SOL.I drove around with the rear end sounding like it was going to fall out on the ground, waited 3 months and had to drive 4 hrs round trip to get the job done at the next PP (or pay someone else to do the work.) What a deal.

 

Who in the area does vinyls at the same quality as AC? There is only one that I know and he is like 4X as expensive? Also, we are talking about a mechanical part, not something that doesn't hinder you from driving your MINI because it doesn't work. Sure, I would probably use Randy's stuff if he was around and I could get a hold of him everytime I needed him. But you know what, I am not going to get an ECU flash from Fireball Tim because he is out West and will never come here.

It really pisses me off when some people just b#$ch about crap and all they are really doing is trying to start something.

 

Whoa, Mbab got it right ...

Who does better vinyl? Do you mean create it or install it. LOTS of companies make vinyl ... custom made to order. Just give them an idea, and they create it. I know, had it done many times.

Install it? I have no idea what AC charged but I can tell you the guy who does MOT vinyl is a subcontractor. He pulls in with his van and will do the job WITHOUT going through MOT. EXCELLENT installer. I have no idea why someone from out of state was flown in.

As to the forum ... its just a forum to talk in. Has DCMM every "blessed" these events or was it adhoc ... Mark just got ppl to go to Solar. Solar had a place to work ... all done by members. I don't see DCMM "officially" blessing anything.

There is nothing wrong with a bunch of ppl flying someone in to do anywork provided you know the consequences ...

Think about Clearbra. There's a guy in Atlanta ... get 4 ppl together, he flies up to do clearbra. But why have him when you got Proform ... the guy who teaches the other places to install, right here?

 

I myself am a long time Randy customer. Been to 3 different pulley parts in 2005 and 2006 when he visited the DC/VA area, I had several bits installed and had a great time doing so. Similar to the Tint and Vinyl parties I arranged. But once the fun ran out and we all drove away and my car had a issue who did I call? I called Randy and he was busy and 2000 miles away. Although he was able to tell me over the phone things to try and troubleshoot my issue he was talking to a novice mechanic. I do computers and hardly get my hands dirty. So I waited 6 months till the next PP and Randy looked and removed a part for me, for full labor and everything.

Since, I have learned my lesson and given my $ to a great local shop, LDG. I took the advice of several club folks including chows4us, JustJay and others and had the same amazing experience they ravved of. Heck my car is still under warranty and don't know if I trust to roll into a dealer for service anymore rather I would just drive to LDG and pay out of pocket knowing a well experienced mechanic will take his time to diagnose and repair the issue.

This is my stance. I would probably visit a PP and poke my nose in but not have parts installed.

 

Maybe a reason why everyone pays 400 dollars for a pulley is because of a few different reasons.

1. Its still the best bang for the buck!
2. It will take a rookie anywhere from 3-7 hours to do it themselves. So just because he is a pro (i shudder when i say that) and can do it in 40 minutes shouldn't mean that he should charge anyless. clients should be happier with quicker service. Otherwise he could take his time and take 4 hours to do it to earn the money.
3. You have to have a pulley puller
4. You have to have a tensioner tool
5. If YOU strip a bolt you are SOL. If he strips it, he has to pay for it, even if the numbnutz who wrenched on your car previously cross threaded the bolt in.
6. If the car can't get buttoned back together because the pulley puller breaks, or the tensioner tool breaks, or the jack fails etc... he is responsible to find a solution. And if it takes him 5 extra hours to hunt down the proper pieces to complete the job, he won't charge you for the extra time...


Just my 2 cents not that my opinon is really worth anything...

and again... I am personally not a RANDY fan... but i personally wouldn't do a pulley for anything less than 400 bucks... no way would i do that work for say 85 bucks... or even 100... to much liability... to much to go wrong... to much time to loose. Not that 85-100 dollars an hour is bad... there is just soooo much more to it than an hourly rate

 

Totally disagree.

If you want some granite laid down in your foyer, its going to cost a fee for the labor. They get paid by the hour. If "they" break a piece of granite, THEY have to replace it. THEY have to have the right tools, THEY have to make it right for the customer.

I had some Anderson double French Doors installed. Paid a fairly small fee. If I did it, well the doors would still be in the box. THEY installed them very quickly. THEY had the right tools. If THEY screwed it up, its on THEIR head. Its the price of doing business.

The fact THEY can do it in 2 hours and maybe you in 7 hours is moot. Thats why they get paid at the rate they do ... MINI gets what? $105/hour ... the going rate.

It would be no different if a dealership replaced your clutch although they may have set charges for certain parts.

A pulley is no different than the installation of any other widget

 

I didn't know dealerships subcontract out that stuff. I thought the employees did it. Hmmm.

 

Dealerships contract out all kinds of stuff.

MOT subcontracts to a very nice guy. I bought my checkered roofs and had to come to MOT a day he was there. From that day forward, he just told me to call him directly and he would take care of me ... which I did. I would meet him and he did all the graphic installs perfectly (unlike the first time I saw MDSbrains car last year which was a disaster).

They subcontract on clearbra as well (pretty sure).

The issue is they can't keep talented ppl like that because they make more money doing it themselves. Who do you think gets the profit from a MINI install ... the dealer or the subcontractor? I bet mostly MINI ... hence bypass the dealer.

 

Actually there's a key difference you're missing when you bring A/C into the mix... None of the vinyl shops in the area are A) DCMM members and B) Provide a fraction of the support to the club that LDG does.

With that in mind, having A/C come to town doesn't run the risk of alienating a club supporter... Having Randy come to town does... If there was a vinyl guy who supported DCMM the way LDG does it would be a different story...

It's one thing to go to MOTD, MoT, AMVIV, MITM etc.. and get work done by somebody who's not local to you. It's entirely another when you're inviting in a competitor to somebody who supports your club just because "it might be fun."

Unlike many of you, I also have the unique perspective of being a past DCMM President and also the one who went to the dealers and LDG (with the help of Tom Clark) and finally convinced them to support the club. I'm not saying Randy shouldn't come to town (heck's he been there before and did quite well), however care should be taken not to offend your local supporters as well...

 

I was promised CAI from WMS for door prizes at the 2006 Dragon and got NADA. We even discussed kicking off one of his new products at the Dragon.
He never delivered

LDG not only promised doorprizes and swag for the swag bags -he delivered - he also showed up and gave rides on his turbo mini.

Actions speaks much louder then words

Just my experience

 

so are you suggesting somesort of flat fee installed price like the guys who installed your double doors or your granite counter tops?

Yes the employee who lays down the granite or installs doors gets paid by the hour.... who knows maybe 10-20 bucks an hour... however i GARUNTEEthat you don't pay 20 bucks an hour to have granite counter tops installed. Because LABOR is padded. Its padded for, mistakes, accidents, cost of tools, cost of the trip to your house, gas, insurance, electricity bills yada yada yada... Besides service based business make there money from installations not from the product itself (typically).

And you are right, the business has to have the right tools for the job, and if anything gets skrewed up it is on "THEIR" head. And that is exactly why you have to pad your labor!!!! In case something happens, you don't loose your BUTT on the job. Also, you have money to fix the problem should something ever happen.

Here is also the other reasone why he charges $400. He can, the market supports that pulleys installed for $400 is a DEAL. The market supports the price, heck i bet he could bump his price to 450 and he wouldn't even notice a slow down in business. Why? Because the competition i.e. dealers, are charging anywhere from 600 to 900 dollars for a pulley. He is a tremendous savings and the job is much too risky for everyday people to try to install it themselves.

 

Perhaps consider that a) I wasn't bitching about crap, in my opinion and b) the point wasn't to start something about the vinyl, tint, dragon, etc, but because we all accept those as reasonable, they were being presented (albeit with an ironic tone) as a baseline for discussing the topic at hand, which is the Webb pulley party.

I appreciate all the additional, on topic input about the pulley party - the costs, the convenience (and inconvenience). It's been helpful.

Too bad there's not a LDG (or equivalent) in NoVa - I don't know that Glenwood is close enough for me to use them.

 

Which brings up a good question - in general, how much does LDG charge for an equivalent pulley install? Does anyone have first hand experience to share?