Never said otherwise. I was arguing the legality of the situation.

-mike

 

This is very interesting. I myself would like to have a set of JCW seats (with out JCW lettering) so that I can have the added support the seat gives, but while still matching the lapis blue leather and having the heated seat option. While I do track my car and drive the dragon spiritedly, I realize it is still a "street car" and want to retain the function and looks the car has. So I have been looking into getting the seats from Europe, cost will be the final factor in this. But after reading this I called up Brian at Classic MINI in Ohio. I deal with him monthly on orders for stock mini parts and had him look up the part numbers I have for the seats (taken from a JCW pdf, so they are real part numbers). And they do not come up in his computer, nor do the part numbers from earlier in this thread. While I realize that dealers are always updating there part numbers with new CD's and things, at this time he didn’t find any of the numbers I gave him. So at this time I do not believe that they will be a US part. I asked him if he had heard anything about them being a US part, or if he thinks they will be. He told me that he had not heard of any plans of them being added, but that they have been part of the JCW catalog for some time now, but not everything in the catalog can be ordered. I can only guess that if they do offer them in the US it will be at least a year from now. I also asked about the ability to disable the air bag on the seat. He said that he was sure that his dealership would not disarm the air bag (even with a waiver) that there is too much of a chance of getting sued, which I can understand. So I will continue my hunt for part numbers:

52 10 0 303 170 code c ~right seat - Leather seat with heat panther
Black/lapis blue
And
52 10 0 303 171 code c ~left seat - Leather seat with heat panther
Black/lapis blue

Till then, good luck……

 

Last month I had a chance to talk at length with an official at MINIUSA. In that conversation, they specifically brought up the JCW seats.

The seats will not be offered in the U.S. because of the lack of airbags. That decision was straight from BMW legal. The legal department's concern was the removal of crash safety equipment. MINIUSA went to bat one more time by advocating the use of waivers that customers would sign to acknowledge reciept of the car in it's "downgraded" capacity and have the customers accept reponsibility for the modification. BMW legal shot that down as well. Thus, there will not be any JCW seats offered by MINIUSA.

 

i guess that is the final word then. thanks dave.

 

So all it the seats would do is void a PORTION of the warranty? Ok Im waitin' three years.

 

Warranty has nothing to do with this.

What was stressed to me was that the basic concern was that if MINIUSA offered the seats it would be exposing itself to potential lawsuits as a result of accidents where someone gets injured or killed in a MINI that had airbags removed.

 

yeah well what happens if I install them and show up for routine service

 

The original numbers I got from JCW were:
JCW413 and JCW412 or BMW 52 10 0306 142 and 143. My dealer couldn't locate those numbers and looked in the JCW catalog to no avail - no seats. He started looking further in the EPC computer and came up with the numbers I gave earlier but with no price. I hear what DiD is saying but why would BMW put a part number in a system if they had no intention of offering them. Also JCW are quite adamant that they ARE available.
Ah well that old chinaman Confusion - he reigns
Alan

 

From the JC UK website:

http://www.johncooper.co.uk/JohnCoop...d+Accessories/

It specifically states that the seats are for the European & Japanese markets only.

I'm sure you could order them directly from JC and have them shipped over (at a cost of course) and installed........it wouldn't invalidate your warranty necessarily but it's a big legal gamble. Do you feel lucky punk (not you personally, 770 KOF:smile: ).

 

As a former drone of the US auto insurance industry, I'll throw in my .02 on 2 points. Please be aware that I am not a lawyer, have not stayed at a Holday Inn Express recently, and my background in claims investigation is based on the laws of the state of Maryland (a "contributory negligence" state- if you are anything beyond 0% at fault for the incident, you are barred from collecting from 3rd parties.)

Regarding insurance coverage: how this will affect things depends on what sort of coverage you are discussing. To illustrate this, suppose an H2 broadsides a MINI.

If the H2 driver is at fault, his insurance cannot deny or limit coverage for injuries to the occupants of the MINI based on how the MINI is equipped. The same holds true if the MINI's occupants did not use their seat belts and got ejected from the car, or if the H2 driver hit a motorcylist who was not wearing a helmet, or if the MINI driver was driving on a suspended license (and thus "shouldn't have been on the road to be able to be hit in the first place!"). "He wouldn't have a skull fracture if he'd worn a helmet, your honor!" is not an argument the courts will accept. (although there's a lot to be said in favor of the courts taking a contrary opinion on this- but that's for another discussion.) Third party liability coverage cannot be limited or denied due to factors not material to the determination of fault. Lack of prudence on the part of the third party claimant with respect to mitigating potential injury before a loss is not grounds for a reduced settlement when a loss occurs.

Now, let's look at what happens if the MINI driver is at fault. There may be 3 types of coverage that are subject to a claim. The first is Personal Injury Protection, or PIP. Some states mandate this no-fault first-party coverage (MD does allow owners to waive this.) I do not believe that PIP is affected by modifications to the vehicle.

The second type of coverage is first-party medical payment coverage. This is basically "collision coverage for your body." It covers the vehicle occupants in the event of a collision, regardless of fault. (The ins. co. will subrogate to recover damages if a third party is liable.) The rate you pay for this coverage is determined in part by the safety equipment level of the vehicle. If you have this type of coverage (not many policies do), then you should check with your agent prior to modifying safety-related items on the car, as diong so may affect the rate you owe for the coverage. If you have not notified the carrier of the change, they may void this portion of the policy, or deny coverage for a claim based on "material omission or falsification on the application for coverage." Alternatively, they may elect to suspend coverage for the claim until they collect the back premium difference that would have resulted from proper reporting of the modification in a timely manner.

The third type of coverage is third-party liability coverage for other occupants of the vehicle. Suppose the at-fault driver of our hypothetical MINI was carrying a carload of litigous non-relatives. They are entitled to claim against his liability coverage for any injuries they sustain. As with third-party coverage in the first instance mentioned above where the H2 driver was at fault, third-party loss payments for actual damages sustained cannot be reduced based on imprudent pre-loss decisions by the claimant.

In short, this modification can affect your rates or insurability for both in-car 3rd party liability, and 1st-party medical payments coverage. On the other side, your collision coverage rate should decrease. After all, airbags (and seat assemblies!) are expensive to replace. The mod would mean that there a 2 fewer airbags the insurnce company is a risk to have to pay for.

Regarding non-insurable liability (this applies regardless of fault on the part of the MINI owner):
where punitive damages are concerned (i.e. "you ba****d, I'd have walked away from that wreck if you hadn't di***d around with the airbags! Instead, I'm in the hospital. You're gonna pay big for that one buddy, I'm gonna sue you to teach you a lesson!") insurance policies include language that excludes claims for punitive or "special" damages. Even if you are not at fault for the direct cause of the injury to another occupant of your modified vehicle, the courts may find that the occupant had a reasonable expectation that the car would meet as-built factory safety standards when they got into it. If your modification demonstrably reduces the safety of the seating position occupied by a third party, you as the vehicle owner are at risk of liability for those damages. Unless you get a signed waiver from anyone who gets in that seat, you can be found liable for damages that will not be covered by your policy. The dealer is not likely to assist with deactiviating the seat-mounted airbags, because doing so makes them your co-defendant.

 

OMG, did I really write that?
I have way too much free time on my hands this evening!

 

lol It was exceptionally clear and educational, thanks!

-mike

 

Bottom line: get the JCW seats and never, ever let anyone ride with you.

It's one way to save wear and tear on your car's interior...:smile:

 

PHEWWWW
Very interesting paper . Seriously - I had been contemplating the very issue you bring up and that is what if I got hit and the other drivers insurance investigator looked at my MINI and said "we will not pay this claim because you changed the seat and therefore put yourself at more risk". That settled (and I would certainly discuss this with my insurance agent prior to getting a seat) I take your point about passengers. I guess the only ways out would be not to have any passengers or only change the drivers seat (would look sort of okay - maybe).
Thanks for the insight.
Alan

 

As someone stated before the seats are by sparco, the milano prestige series, with the adjustable thigh support system. the cost is around $1300. Instead of the jcw logo you get the sparco logo. The same seats are installed in the Ferrari Enzo, so I consider if it' s good enough for that monster it's good enough for my mini, with or without the side airbag.

 

Swapping the driver's seat only is probably the safest answer- at least from a legal standpoint. Plus, it makes for one more reason to not share. "I'm sorry, but for your own safety, I can't let you behind the wheel. If you wanna drive it, you'll need to get your own!"

I admit it. I am selfish with my MINI. In that way, at least!

 

I have a price of $926 for a Monza in red on black (that closely matches the MC 40 interior) but it's in cloth only. I would like the Milano but it only comes in black or red leather. Anyone got an idea as to how much recovering a Monza in leather be?
Alan

 

only the milano prestige comes in leather the milano is in alcantra but of course it's cheaper at near $ 1000. you can get it in leather but the price nears that of prestige.
as for recovering in leather to get a nice job you'll end up paying too much just get the factory leather covered seat, much better deals.

 

I want the whole set, but apparently they are NOT going to be offered on this side of the pond. I wish you could just order them from JCW and sign some type of waiver . I know there are airbags in the front seats, but what about the rear seat assembly? No airbags there, wonder if you could get the rear seats over here without offending the peeps at BMW? And then match the rear seat upholstery on a set of Milanos. Anybody know a good shop to embroider the JCW logo on a set of Sparco Milano's with adjustable thigh supports? (I am thinking of getting a Black Leather set and stitching in some Red Alacantra inserts if you can't get some type of matching leather.) Sounds like it is more trouble than it is worth.

 

While we are on the subject anyone interested in a pair of original mini black heated leather seats new condition? all offers welcome.

 

there is an article in the NEW MINI magazine that shows the installation of the JCW seats and how the airbag sensors are reaplied to the car not turning on the light. I am going to have two seats shipped over from my grandparents in germany. cool new in the uk sells them also http://www.coolnew.co.uk/product_details.asp?id=346

 

It's about about $1100 plus shipping at todays exchange rates. They do look nice.

 

I have always been dissappointed with the stock seats in the MINI.
I, like everyone else, love the Sparco/JWC seats, and would really like to have the added support, and built in harness guide holes. However, I have real concerns about losing the airbag. Running red lights seems to be the national passtime now days, and while I always look carefully at intersections, the possibility of getting t-boned by a car speeding to get thru the light is very real. That is the very senario in which the side air bag would contribute greatly to one's survival. Don't think for a minute it can't happen to you. I very recently lost a relative after he was t-boned by a kid doing 81 thru the intersection in the fog.

Face it, the bagless MINI is not much of a match against a speeding SUV with the driver on the cell phone.

I'm more inclined to buy one Sparco, and put it in and out for track events.

 

If the rumors posted on MotoringFile are correct, you may be able to retrofit a Recaro seat with side airbag from a 2006 model. Just have to wait and see, I guess...

 

this is one of the most confusing topics ive ver heard of.

people change seats out all the time with no problems, air bags or not. i dont see the problem here.