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Audio/Navigation :: Front/Rear Channel Swap

Audio/Navigation :: Front/Rear Channel Swap

  #51  
Old 08-20-2008, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by TWISTER View Post
Robin,
If he does will you document it in detail for us that have the HiFi System?
Sure. If we work something out, I'll take my Nikon D2x, macro lens, and flash.

Originally Posted by D Unit View Post
d6rtm,

I actually have the BMW tool that was posted in another thread that I had purchased several years ago when I swapped the pinouts on my BMW M3's MAF sensor plug...

Anyways, I work in San Jose if you want to try it to see if it works or not. If it does, I'm free to let anyone borrow it if they cover shipping for it...
I may take you up on that. Thanks for the offer.
 
  #52  
Old 08-20-2008, 11:20 AM
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D Unit, Robin--

Happy to help. Where in San Jose? Send me a pm and we can swap info.

Robin, I'm available this weekend to give it a try.

Not sure about my Mini though -- I'm taking it in on Friday; it seems I didn't do things in quite the proper sequence when I had the seats out last, and when I started it up again, I got the dreaded red "YOU BOZO!" airbag light... (not the technological genius some might hope me to be...)

--and I'm putting together a post detailing exactly what colour goes where in doing the swap on the male pins, prompted by schatzy62. Look for it after lunch.

--bob
 
  #53  
Old 08-20-2008, 12:08 PM
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Would this change be effective in a MY08 or MY09 R55 Clubman? I am assuming you'r baseline is a R56 now. thanks ajm
 
  #54  
Old 08-20-2008, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by moe-jiller View Post
Would this change be effective in a MY08 or MY09 R55 Clubman? I am assuming you'r baseline is a R56 now. thanks ajm
The wiring in my 08 clubman is the same as in the R56 that this was first tested in so making htis change will help the sound by putting the base where it should be.

As for 09 R55/R56 we will not be able to know until one is tested/checked.

I have the feeling that MINI did this for a reason or does not realize the mistake and does not know or want to fix it.
 
  #55  
Old 08-20-2008, 12:37 PM
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I found a tool that works. The brand I have is JT&T, part number 5012F, Weather Pack Extractor Tool. Set me back $16 TTL, but worked like a charm on test out.
The owner of the electronics store came out and looked at the connector. He said it looks like a AMP (brand name) .084. he was out of the tools, but had a suitible substitute. Wa-La. Cheaper, too.


CAUTION: THIS TOOL CRAPPED OUT WITH ONE PIN LEFT TO GO. IT IS THE RIGHT SIZE, BUT CHEAP AND INEXPENSIVE GO HAND IN HAND.
 

Last edited by 4xAAA; 08-21-2008 at 11:00 AM. Reason: mistyped the part number
  #56  
Old 08-20-2008, 01:00 PM
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What wires go where to do the swap

Here are the details on which wires to move where to do the swap:

Note that I recommend doing the male pins, as they are far easier to remove, and are also on the speaker side of things.

Oh, the usual caveat -- you're on your own, don't blame me, no warranties expressed or implied, for prevention of disease only. Check your work. Check my work!

Code:
FR = front right
FL = front left
RR - rear right
RL = rear left


     ORIGINAL                SWAPPED
 sig  color what   pin   sig  color what

TTHL- BL/SW  RL-    2   MTVL- SW/VI  FL-
MTVR+ GE/BR  FR+    3   TTHR+ BR/OR  RR+
MTVR- GE/SW  FR-    4   TTHR- GE/RT  RR-
MTVL+ SW/RT  FL+    5   TTHL+ BL/BR  RL+
MTVL- SW/VI  FL-    6   TTHL- BL/SW  RL-
TTHR+ BR/OR  RR+    7   MTVR+ GE/BR  FR+
TTHR- GE/RT  RR-    8   MTVR- GE/SW  FR-
TTHL+ BL/BR  RL+   10   MTVL+ SW/RT  FL+

Colors:

SW black
BR brown
RT red
OR orange
GE yellow
VI violet
(also edited into the initial post to put all the info in one place)
 

Last edited by k6rtm; 08-20-2008 at 01:21 PM. Reason: the voices told me to do it
  #57  
Old 08-20-2008, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by k6rtm View Post
D Unit, Robin--

Happy to help. Where in San Jose? Send me a pm and we can swap info.

Robin, I'm available this weekend to give it a try.
PM sent. Thanks.
 
  #58  
Old 08-20-2008, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by schatzy62 View Post
It should work with the HiFi as well but I am trying to figure out if there is a better way to do it.

If my memory serves me correctly the amp has seperate channels for all the speakers if this is correct then it may be better to just swap the signals at the amp output so that things like the phone audio stay in the front speakers.
However, each channel in the HiFi amp may have filters/crossovers/equalizers tailored for the type and location of the speaker (that's the way it was in the R50/R52/R53 Harmon Kardon system). It is probably better to swap the amp inputs rather than the outputs.

Originally Posted by k6rtm View Post
The amp also hooks to one of the digital busses -- many reports in other threads that the car computers get grumpy if they expect to hear from the HiFi amp and it's not there.
Specifically, it is the dealer's diagnostic computer that gets grumpy if you take the car in for service. Disconnecting the HiFi amp doesn't seem to actually affect the car's operation.

Originally Posted by k6rtm View Post
Not sure about my Mini though -- I'm taking it in on Friday; it seems I didn't do things in quite the proper sequence when I had the seats out last, and when I started it up again, I got the dreaded red "YOU BOZO!" airbag light... (not the technological genius some might hope me to be...)
The general rule is, don't turn the power (ignition) on while seats are disconnected. This can make it really awkward to check and test things halfway through your work.
 
  #59  
Old 08-21-2008, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by D Unit View Post
d6rtm,

I actually have the BMW tool that was posted in another thread that I had purchased several years ago when I swapped the pinouts on my BMW M3's MAF sensor plug...

Anyways, I work in San Jose if you want to try it to see if it works or not. If it does, I'm free to let anyone borrow it if they cover shipping for it...

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/all/ele...tact_pins.html
Anyone looking for this part from a BMW Dealer the number has changed

it is now 83 30 0 495 385

My local dealer stated the cost at $57.00, there was also no longer seperate part number listed for the sleeves, it seems it can only be gotten as a kit now.

I called a second dealer and was told the same thing.
 
  #60  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by schatzy62 View Post
Anyone looking for this part from a BMW Dealer the number has changed

it is now 83 30 0 495 385

My local dealer stated the cost at $57.00, there was also no longer seperate part number listed for the sleeves, it seems it can only be gotten as a kit now.

I called a second dealer and was told the same thing.
Hmmm... The order form I've got shows 83-30-0-495-386 for $7.71 for the sleeve part.

We'll see Friday (I hope), and get a look at one later today.
 
  #61  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:46 AM
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i'm waiting on a flip flop adaptor harness, who's gonna sell me one?
 
  #62  
Old 08-21-2008, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by k6rtm View Post
Hmmm... The order form I've got shows 83-30-0-495-386 for $7.71 for the sleeve part.

We'll see Friday (I hope), and get a look at one later today.
Your dealer may have had old stock on the part. I wish the two dealers near me did. I would just go and buy one.
 
  #63  
Old 08-21-2008, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jupiterfish View Post
i'm waiting on a flip flop adaptor harness, who's gonna sell me one?
I'm trying to source the connector parts to make a harness, but since I won't have my MCS until mid October I need detailed pictures of both sides of the connectors and/or any part numbers that may be on the connectors.
 
  #64  
Old 08-21-2008, 10:44 AM
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Has anyone brought this issue up with MINI yet, to find out if this was done by design or if it was a mistake?

My '02 GTI had a similar issue where they'd cross-wired one of the speakers at the connector.
They eventually released a TSB on it.
 
  #65  
Old 08-21-2008, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jupiterfish View Post
i'm waiting on a flip flop adaptor harness, who's gonna sell me one?
Because of where this connector sits, it may be easier to pop the pins than add another connector to make the jump. Awful tight space to store it in.
 
  #66  
Old 08-21-2008, 04:03 PM
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holy MOTHER OF PEARL.

Gang: did the pinswap thirty min ago; it took longer to get the panel and connector out than to do the swapping.
Got it all back together, found a couple of appropriate CDs to try, gave one a spin, was unimpressed and a little disappointed ... and then remembered that "rear" is now "forward" on the fader -- d'oh!
Much better, and some improvement in bass!

Sooooo, I pulled out the BIG gun: Reference Recordings RR-58CD, aka "Pomp and Pipes". This is an orchestra-and-organ recording, made by a group of SERIOUSLY HARDCORE AUDIO-JUNKIES on one of the most astounding pipe-organs in the world; highly recommended both for the performance and as a "let's-see-what-this-thing-can-really-do" test disc.

WOW.
I did not know what I was missing -- and that's with Boston 40W 5x7s in the rear, not 6x9s (see gallery).
Big congrats again to k6rtm.
 

Last edited by basil49; 08-21-2008 at 04:28 PM.
  #67  
Old 08-21-2008, 04:28 PM
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CHEAP alternate pin-extractor tool

FYI: designed a cheap alternate tool: I thought about k6rtm tweaking a pin-extractor, went to my hobby shop, bought a 12-inch long, 5/32-inch-dia brass tube, and cut the same slit in the end with my Dremel as he did. Cost ONE DOLLAR. Works great. (See the gallery.)
 

Last edited by basil49; 08-21-2008 at 06:18 PM. Reason: moved the pic to the gallery
  #68  
Old 08-21-2008, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by basil49 View Post
Gang: did the pinswap thirty min ago; it took longer to get the panel and connector out than to do the swapping.
Got it all back together, found a couple of appropriate CDs to try, gave one a spin, was unimpressed and a little disappointed ... and then remembered that "rear" is now "forward" on the fader -- d'oh!
Much better, and some improvement in bass!

Sooooo, I pulled out the BIG gun: Reference Recordings RR-58CD, aka "Pomp and Pipes". This is an orchestra-and-organ recording, made by a group of SERIOUSLY HARDCORE AUDIO-JUNKIES on one of the most astounding pipe-organs in the world; highly recommended both for the performance and as a "let's-see-what-this-thing-can-really-do" test disc.

WOW.
I did not know what I was missing -- and that's with Boston 40W 5x7s in the rear, not 6x9s (see gallery).
Big congrats again to k6rtm.
Congratulations! And thanks for the tip on the alternate tool!
 
  #69  
Old 08-21-2008, 08:08 PM
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Hey Basil,

Did you have to cut a slot in the tube to allow it to change diameter in the connector ( in other words, was there not a brass tube that matched the 2.5mm size of the factory tool )?

I ask, because I want to make a tool as well, and am trying to visualize how it's releasing the molex pin. I wondered if the slot was necessary to slip by a lip or groove, or if it was there just to allow the tube to expand?

Thanx,

Bill
 
  #70  
Old 08-21-2008, 09:07 PM
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The slot allows the tube to expand. I used a #27 drill to expand the split tube, and that worked okay. Hopefully I'll be picking up a factory tool tomorrow; I'll have my calipers with me to measure ID and OD.

The (male) pins looked like they had 6 barbs spaced uniformly around the barrel of the pin.

I'll try to work on better pics over the weekend, and getting part numbers from the connector bodies.
 
  #71  
Old 08-21-2008, 09:14 PM
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Does this also affect the mid and tweeter by changing these wires around?Or are we only changing the 6" and the 6x9?
 
  #72  
Old 08-21-2008, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by clnconcpts View Post
Does this also affect the mid and tweeter by changing these wires around?Or are we only changing the 6" and the 6x9?
In the non-HiFi system, the one I'm working with, you're switching the fronts (6.5 and 4 inch in parallel in the doors) with the 6x9 rears.

With the HiFi system, look at the wiring diagrams and you tell me -- it's not so clear.

The wiring diagrams for the HiFi tell me that the front tweeters and mids are in parallel, with the front woofers separate. The rear woofers and tweeters are separate.
 
  #73  
Old 08-22-2008, 04:04 AM
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According to the wiring diagrams this is how the channels of the amps are wired

1. 40W - rear left woofer
2. 40W - rear right woofer
3. 25W - rear left tweeter
4. 25W - rear right tweeter
5. 25W - front left woofer
6. 25W - front right woofer
7. 25W - front left mid and tweeter
8. 25W - front right mid and tweeter

From doing some listening tests with a signal test disk (20 hz to 1000hz in 20hz increments) it seems the HiFi system has something else going on. This change my not affect the HiFI system as it does the standard system. There have also been reports that the HiFi system may also do volume shaping. I.E. at higher volumes it shapes the frequency response differently.

I will hopefully be doing some independent testing this weekend. look for results on Sunday sometime.
 
  #74  
Old 08-22-2008, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Satsloader View Post
Hey Basil, Did you have to cut a slot in the tube to allow it to change diameter in the connector?
Originally Posted by k6rtm View Post
The slot allows the tube to expand. I used a #27 drill to expand the split tube, and that worked okay.
The (male) pins looked like they had 6 barbs spaced uniformly around the barrel of the pin.
I'll try to work on better pics over the weekend, and getting part numbers from the connector bodies.
satsloader: YEP. What he said.
When you shove the slotted tube in over the pin, you're also turning slightly back and forth to work the tube past the barbs ... do a twist twist twist twist with a firm PUSH, and you'll feel CLICK as the pin pops back about a quarter-inch -- and it's free.

I found "Tyco 2-828879-1" on the male connector body ... forgot to look at the female. Google that number and it confirms a "twelve-connector, 2.5mm pin body".
 

Last edited by basil49; 08-22-2008 at 08:50 AM.
  #75  
Old 08-22-2008, 06:53 AM
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Thanks guys! I like music a great deal, having good tunes going just adds to whatever is happening at the moment. Driving a MINI is fun, driving a MINI with good tunes is more fun, driving a MINI with an improved sound system is even more fun. Whew!
 

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